From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
To: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>,
"help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: RE: [External] : Running emacs without any customisation
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 00:12:02 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <tqJwPX2TMqWfZRUGgKcTBPMhi_jSvKf5ZfV-FHTlj5NbFDleCVFctUE7ufHplTMpjVBO4mWPgvOxCjZNxoNlSHggg9zM5VtUaEylMGPSN9s=@proton.me> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <trinity-1d0659c8-7726-4cb5-bf64-4f3975e7d3e5-1665510340744@3c-app-mailcom-bs06>
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, October 11th, 2022 at 5:45 PM, Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> wrote:
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 3:57 AM
> > From: "Drew Adams" drew.adams@oracle.com
> > To: "Michael Heerdegen" michael_heerdegen@web.de, "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Running emacs without any customisation
> >
> > > It is an error in a package if loading the package has side effects other
> > > than defining functions and variables, recursively loading other stuff,
> > > and these things, but not all stuff out there respects that rule.
> >
> > FWIW, I disagree that "it is an error".
> > It may be poor form, unfriendly, or impolite,
> > but it's not an error. And yes, it's a "rule"
> > (guideline), and a useful one.
> >
> > But it need not always be poor form, unfriendly,
> > or impolite, provided users are sufficiently
> > informed clearly what loading the library does,
> > that is, just what side effects it performs.
> >
> > In general, yes, it's not user-friendly etc.
> > In particular, however, it could be.
> >
> > It's analogous to turning on a minor mode
> > (though not the same): If you know what loading
> > some package does, and you load it, then you
> > are, in effect, turning on a "mode". It's a
> > user choice to load a library.
> >
> > One big disadvantage, however is that you might
> > not have read the doc explaining what loading
> > does. Another big disadvantage is that
> > `unload-feature' and` <XXX>-unload-function'
> > might not (likely will not) truly reverse
> > everything that loading did.
> >
> > To be clear, I'm not arguing in favor of side
> > effects while loading a library. I'm just
> > disagreeing that that's an error, or that it's
> > always necessarily a big bad thing.
> >
> > Your init file is a "library". You load it.
> > It performs side effects. It's your choice to
> > load it (versus `emacs -Q'). Of course, you're
> > likely the only user of your init file, so at
> > worst you shoot only yourself in the foot.
I do not see it is only me that gets shot, because the
command
emacs -q --no-site-file --no-splash
also displays a black background, whereas "emacs -Q" gives a white background.
> > There's a fuzzy gradation from such a Lisp file
> > and a "library" or "package". (That's Lisp and
> > free software.)
>
>
> From my perspective, the situation in a bit different. How can
> users restore to a fresh system when things get messed up?
>
> There should be clear instructions to users.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-12 0:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-10 11:36 Running emacs without any customisation uzibalqa
2022-10-10 11:46 ` Thibaut Verron
2022-10-10 11:54 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-10 12:10 ` Thibaut Verron
2022-10-10 12:41 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-10 23:40 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-11 15:00 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-10 23:30 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-11 15:02 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 15:13 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 15:56 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 15:59 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 16:19 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 15:57 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-10-11 16:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 17:24 ` Drew Adams
2022-10-11 22:48 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 1:33 ` Drew Adams
2022-10-11 18:52 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 19:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 19:13 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 19:43 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 20:26 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 20:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 20:53 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 21:23 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 22:01 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 22:28 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 22:31 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 22:47 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-11 23:00 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-11 17:45 ` RE: [External] : " Christopher Dimech
2022-10-12 0:12 ` uzibalqa [this message]
2022-10-12 1:44 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 9:59 ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2022-10-12 12:47 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 14:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 15:30 ` Drew Adams
2022-10-12 15:56 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 17:03 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 17:50 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 18:25 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 18:54 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 19:06 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 20:42 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 20:51 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 21:05 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 21:35 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 21:45 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-12 22:11 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-12 22:25 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 0:33 ` Dale Snell
2022-10-13 0:46 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 5:10 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-14 18:28 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 0:40 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 0:43 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 1:09 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 2:02 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 11:17 ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2022-10-13 13:18 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-13 14:56 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 0:37 ` Po Lu
2022-10-14 0:47 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 3:21 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 15:03 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-13 16:47 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-10-13 17:55 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 4:18 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-13 0:42 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 0:50 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 1:07 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 1:11 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 2:01 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 2:05 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 4:03 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 6:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-13 12:17 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 12:39 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 13:10 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 13:20 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 4:09 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-14 5:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-13 13:21 ` Po Lu
2022-10-13 14:02 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 15:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-14 16:30 ` Drew Adams
2022-10-13 14:03 ` Pascal Quesseveur
2022-10-13 14:18 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 15:04 ` Pascal Quesseveur
2022-10-13 15:26 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-13 16:41 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 0:38 ` Po Lu
2022-10-14 2:02 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 3:19 ` Po Lu
2022-10-14 3:49 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 4:45 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 4:52 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 6:16 ` Po Lu
2022-10-14 6:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-14 16:01 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-14 18:43 ` tomas
2022-10-15 6:58 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-15 8:39 ` tomas
2022-10-15 17:38 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-15 19:37 ` tomas
2022-10-14 20:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-14 2:33 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-14 4:14 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-14 5:32 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-14 8:47 ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2022-10-14 9:57 ` Po Lu
2022-10-14 12:30 ` uzibalqa
2022-10-14 13:48 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-16 4:57 ` Jean Louis
2022-10-14 20:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-10-13 1:12 ` Christopher Dimech
2022-10-13 0:40 ` Po Lu
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