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From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 59347@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#59347: 29.0.50; `:family` face setting ignored
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 21:28:58 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ec23ed3e95f4dfe61b90@heytings.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83o7s8r1i7.fsf@gnu.org>


>> Yes.  The gist of the original docstring, which was correct (and I 
>> think understandable even by non-experts), is this:
>>
>> "When the font chosen for the default face has a weight, slant or width 
>> that is not supported by other available fonts on the system, such as 
>> 'medium', Emacs may select suboptimal fonts for other faces."
>
> This was important when the default value was hard to understand.  It is 
> less important when the default value is easily understood and 
> interpreted.  I will add something along these lines when I will change 
> the default to t, because then the effect will again be less clear.
>

Indeed, but what I meant is that the conditions in which that variable is 
useful / has an effect, and the intended effect, were indicated in the 
original docstring:

If the font chosen for the _default_ face has an attribute value that is 
not supported by other available fonts on the system,

then the font chosen for _other_ faces [in which that attribute is 
unspecified] may be suboptimal.

The part between brackets was missing from the original docstring.

>> As I explained, the root of this bug is an undesirable interaction with 
>> the weight/slant/widht (and possibly other attributes, time will tell 
>> us) of the _default_ face, when they are set to unusual/less common 
>> values, with the fonts that are selected for _other faces_ in which 
>> these attributes are _unspecified_.
>
> That is the case that was in your mind, but that is not the only case 
> where realize_gui_face is called.  It is also called when faces are 
> merged (which happens a lot in Emacs), and in a few other cases.  In 
> those cases I think the situation is less black-and-white, since each 
> attribute can come from a different face, or be inherited.
>

Would you mind giving a few more details?  I don't really understand what 
you mean here.

>> That is a very specific corner case, and the current variable name and 
>> docstring does not reflect this (namely, that it's a very specific 
>> corner case, in a very specific area of code).  The current docstring 
>> means something completely different.  Saying for example that "face 
>> attributes will be treated as "soft" constraints when looking for 
>> suitable fonts: if an exact match is not possible, a font can be 
>> selected that is a close, but not an exact, match" means that when an 
>> attribute is _specified_ Emacs will treat that attribute value in a lax 
>> manner, which is already (and has always been) the case, and when the 
>> purpose of that variable is to affect font selection for faces whose 
>> attributes are _unspecified_.
>
> When you say that it "is already (and has always been) the case", AFAIU 
> you are talking about the lower-level code, not about the level on which 
> this new variable makes a difference.  On this level, the match is 
> required to be exact, and clearing some attributes allows it to be 
> "lax".  Otherwise, why did we make this change, if the constraints were 
> already not "hard"?
>

Again I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What I meant is that Emacs 
treats the attribute values of faces in a lax way, and always did.  After

(set-face-attribute 'variable-pitch nil :weight 'medium)

there is no guarantee that the font used for the variable-pitch face has a 
medium weight, IOW, that weight is not a hard constraint.  The only 
guarantee is that, after this call, Emacs will prefer, for that face, a 
regular font to a light one, or a semi-bold font to a bold one.

The fact that, after 6b1ed2f2c9, the attribute values of the default face 
became hard constraints for other faces in which these attributes are 
unspecified is a bug, that this change fixes.






  reply	other threads:[~2022-12-12 21:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-11-18  4:57 bug#59347: 29.0.50; `:family` face setting ignored Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-18 12:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 14:59   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-18 15:13     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 15:25       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-18 16:54         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 17:21           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 20:00             ` Yuan Fu
2022-11-18 20:12               ` Yuan Fu
2022-11-18 21:09                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19  7:21                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 19:46           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-18 19:58             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 20:55             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19  7:15               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-19 14:55                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19 15:31                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-19 16:01                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19 16:16                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 13:57                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 14:59                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 15:35                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 15:54                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 16:59                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 17:29                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 17:43                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 17:58                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 18:11                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 18:19                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 19:45                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 20:01                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 20:08                                                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-20 20:45                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-21 12:27                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 18:30                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-20 18:53                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 18:31                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-20 18:54                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-20 21:49                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-21 12:51                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-21 14:48                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-21 15:08                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-21 23:34                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22  0:34                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22  3:05                                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-22  7:59                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 13:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 13:46                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 13:16                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 13:38                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 14:38                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 14:45                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 14:53                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 15:41                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 17:44                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 20:52                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 20:47                                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-23  8:13                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-30 10:03                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-30 14:00                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-30 15:38                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-04 14:21                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-05 23:30                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-06 14:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-07 11:00                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
     [not found]                                                                             ` <d99c6016-3b32-1116-9ef1-43fe40a71a4@heytings.org>
2022-12-07 11:02                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-07 23:19                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08  0:27                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-08  1:07                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08  8:16                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08 14:59                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08 15:13                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                                     ` <e1b79bb2-a3c5-2677-57d8-fb6db43dfd9@heytings.org>
2022-12-08 16:27                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08 14:12                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-08 15:33                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08 17:29                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2022-12-08 17:44                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08  5:32                                                                                 ` Yuan Fu
2022-12-08  8:09                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08 14:17                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-08 14:49                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08 15:24                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-08 15:45                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08  8:03                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08 12:53                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08 14:16                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-08 15:17                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-08 15:42                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-10 22:51                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12  0:57                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12  1:49                                                                                             ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-12  8:54                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12 10:33                                                                                                 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-12 10:51                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12 11:18                                                                                                     ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-12 11:38                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12 12:47                                                                                                         ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-12 15:30                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-12 15:45                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-12 15:07                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-12 16:12                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-12-12 17:10                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-12 21:28                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings [this message]
2022-12-13 11:58                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-13  1:16                                                                                               ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-12-13 15:40                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-04 14:23                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22  6:42                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22  8:01                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 13:27                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 12:38                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 12:43                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 14:29                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 14:39                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-22 14:52                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-22 15:17                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-20 18:16                           ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-20 19:46                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-11-19  0:20 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19  0:28   ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19  4:37     ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19  6:01       ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-11-19 14:17         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors

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