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* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
@ 2023-07-18 14:47 Stephen Molitor via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2023-07-18 16:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Molitor via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2023-07-18 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 64712

Y
I see this message in the *Messages* buffer every time I start Emacs:

Compiling /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-loaddefs.el.gz...
uncompressing cl-loaddefs.el.gz...
uncompressing cl-loaddefs.el.gz...done
Compilation finished.

I'm using 29.0.2 on MacOS but I've seen the same behavior with prior
releases. I'm using native compilation.

In GNU Emacs 29.0.92 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin21.6.0, NS
appkit-2113.60 Version 12.6 (Build 21G115)) of 2023-07-17 built on
Stephens-MacBook-Pro.local
Repository revision: d2548191f116e3ebdf644c3dd281d6e925f51bcf
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113
System Description:  macOS 12.6

Configured using:
'configure --with-ns --with-modules
'--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
Support/Emacs/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp'
--with-xwidgets --with-tree-sitter --with-native-compilation=aot
'CFLAGS=-I/opt/homebrew/opt/gcc/include
-I/opt/homebrew/opt/libgccjit/include -O2'
'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/homebrew/opt/gcc/lib/gcc/13
-L/opt/homebrew/opt/gcc/lib/gcc/13/gcc/aarch64-apple-darwin21/13
-L/opt/homebrew/opt/libgccjit/lib/gcc/13
-I/opt/homebrew/opt/gcc/include -I/opt/homebrew/opt/libgccjit/include
-Wl,-headerpad_max_install_names''

Configured features:
ACL DBUS GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP
NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM XWIDGETS ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: ELisp/d

Minor modes in effect:
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  auto-revert-mode: t
  smartparens-global-mode: t
  smartparens-mode: t
  robby-spinner-mode: t
  lispy-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  outline-minor-mode: t
  display-line-numbers-mode: t
  yas-global-mode: t
  yas-minor-mode: t
  rainbow-delimiters-mode: t
  corfu-popupinfo-mode: t
  all-the-icons-completion-mode: t
  marginalia-mode: t
  global-corfu-mode: t
  corfu-mode: t
  vertico-mode: t
  global-ligature-mode: t
  ligature-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  git-gutter-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  repeat-mode: t
  pixel-scroll-precision-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  straight-use-package-mode: t
  straight-package-neutering-mode: t
  straight-live-modifications-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  prettify-symbols-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  global-visual-line-mode: t
  visual-line-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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~/.emacs.d/straight/repos/combobulate/combobulate-yaml hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/combobulate/combobulate-yaml
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~/.emacs.d/straight/repos/combobulate/combobulate-python hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/combobulate/combobulate-python
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~/.emacs.d/straight/repos/combobulate/combobulate-debug-query hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/combobulate/combobulate-debug-query
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~/.emacs.d/straight/repos/combobulate/combobulate-misc hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/combobulate/combobulate-misc
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~/.emacs.d/straight/repos/combobulate/combobulate-settings hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/combobulate/combobulate-settings
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/ivy/elpa hides /Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/lispy/elpa
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/org-yt/org-yt hides ~/.emacs.d/elisp/org-yt
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/ox-slack/ox-slack hides ~/.emacs.d/elisp/ox-slack
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/transient/transient hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/transient
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-jump hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-jump
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-ensure hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-ensure
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-core hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-core
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-delight hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-delight
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-diminish hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-diminish
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-bind-key hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-bind-key
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/bind-key/bind-key hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/bind-key
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/use-package/use-package-lint hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-lint
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/let-alist/let-alist hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/map/map hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/emacs-lisp/map
/Users/stephenmolitor/.emacs.d/straight/build/eldoc/eldoc hides /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/emacs-lisp/eldoc

Features:
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url-file svg dom gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml
gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int
gnus-range gnus-win gnus nnheader range ol-docview doc-view jka-compr
image-mode exif ol-bibtex bibtex ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi org-link-doi
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smartparens-javascript smartparens-org smartparens-markdown
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hashtable-print-readable backquote threads xwidget-internal dbusbind
kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process native-compile
emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1197048 800507)
(symbols 48 52543 83)
(strings 32 218900 108491)
(string-bytes 1 9028889)
(vectors 16 109172)
(vector-slots 8 2725875 1201257)
(floats 8 1503 3510)
(intervals 56 16779 8476)
(buffers 984 36))





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-18 14:47 bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup Stephen Molitor via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2023-07-18 16:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-07-27  1:50   ` Dmitry Gutov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-07-18 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stephen Molitor; +Cc: 64712

tags 64712 notabug
thanks

> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 09:47:15 -0500
> From:  Stephen Molitor via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> Y
> I see this message in the *Messages* buffer every time I start Emacs:
> 
> Compiling /Users/stephenmolitor/repos/build-emacs-for-macos/builds/Emacs.2023-06-18.a24e9e3.master.macOS-12.arm64/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-loaddefs.el.gz...
> uncompressing cl-loaddefs.el.gz...
> uncompressing cl-loaddefs.el.gz...done
> Compilation finished.

This is normal: cl-loaddefs.el has no-byte-compile:t , so the async
compilation does nothing.

This is harmless, and not a bug.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-18 16:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-07-27  1:50   ` Dmitry Gutov
  2023-07-27  5:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2023-07-27  1:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii, Stephen Molitor; +Cc: 64712

On 18/07/2023 19:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> This is normal: cl-loaddefs.el has no-byte-compile:t , so the async
> compilation does nothing.
> 
> This is harmless, and not a bug.

Reading the file, extracting it from an archive, to ultimately do 
nothing, seems unfortunate. I'm guessing it can add a certain latency to 
Emacs's startup.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27  1:50   ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2023-07-27  5:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-07-27  9:03       ` Andrea Corallo
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-07-27  5:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: stephen.molitor, 64712

> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 04:50:21 +0300
> Cc: 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
> 
> On 18/07/2023 19:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > This is normal: cl-loaddefs.el has no-byte-compile:t , so the async
> > compilation does nothing.
> > 
> > This is harmless, and not a bug.
> 
> Reading the file, extracting it from an archive, to ultimately do 
> nothing, seems unfortunate. I'm guessing it can add a certain latency to 
> Emacs's startup.

What do you suggest we do instead?  Emacs cannot know a file should
not be compiled without reading its contents first.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27  5:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-07-27  9:03       ` Andrea Corallo
  2023-07-27  9:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-07-27 13:36         ` Dmitry Gutov
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Corallo @ 2023-07-27  9:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Dmitry Gutov, stephen.molitor, 64712

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 04:50:21 +0300
>> Cc: 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
>> 
>> On 18/07/2023 19:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> > This is normal: cl-loaddefs.el has no-byte-compile:t , so the async
>> > compilation does nothing.
>> > 
>> > This is harmless, and not a bug.
>> 
>> Reading the file, extracting it from an archive, to ultimately do 
>> nothing, seems unfortunate. I'm guessing it can add a certain latency to 
>> Emacs's startup.
>
> What do you suggest we do instead?  Emacs cannot know a file should
> not be compiled without reading its contents first.

If we add cl-loaddefs.el to `native-comp-jit-compilation-deny-list' we
should just not even attempt compiling it.

Dunno if it's considered an acceptable fix, in case I can push it so it
can get tested.

Best Regards

  Andrea





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27  9:03       ` Andrea Corallo
@ 2023-07-27  9:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-07-27  9:56           ` Andrea Corallo
  2023-07-27 13:36         ` Dmitry Gutov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-07-27  9:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrea Corallo; +Cc: dmitry, stephen.molitor, 64712

> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>,  stephen.molitor@icloud.com,
>   64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 05:03:32 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > What do you suggest we do instead?  Emacs cannot know a file should
> > not be compiled without reading its contents first.
> 
> If we add cl-loaddefs.el to `native-comp-jit-compilation-deny-list' we
> should just not even attempt compiling it.
> 
> Dunno if it's considered an acceptable fix, in case I can push it so it
> can get tested.

I'm not sure.  This has a maintenance costs, since the specification
is separate from the affected file.  If we ever decide to compile
cl-loaddefs, someone might be in for a ride...





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27  9:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-07-27  9:56           ` Andrea Corallo
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Corallo @ 2023-07-27  9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: dmitry, stephen.molitor, 64712

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
>> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>,  stephen.molitor@icloud.com,
>>   64712@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 05:03:32 -0400
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > What do you suggest we do instead?  Emacs cannot know a file should
>> > not be compiled without reading its contents first.
>> 
>> If we add cl-loaddefs.el to `native-comp-jit-compilation-deny-list' we
>> should just not even attempt compiling it.
>> 
>> Dunno if it's considered an acceptable fix, in case I can push it so it
>> can get tested.
>
> I'm not sure.  This has a maintenance costs, since the specification
> is separate from the affected file.  If we ever decide to compile
> cl-loaddefs, someone might be in for a ride...

Yep totally agree, the only way I can think of in order to mitigate this
would be adding a comment in cl-loaddefs.el close to the
no-native-compile: t cookie.

  Andrea





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27  9:03       ` Andrea Corallo
  2023-07-27  9:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-07-27 13:36         ` Dmitry Gutov
  2023-07-27 13:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2023-07-27 13:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrea Corallo, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: stephen.molitor, 64712

On 27/07/2023 12:03, Andrea Corallo wrote:
> If we add cl-loaddefs.el to `native-comp-jit-compilation-deny-list' we
> should just not even attempt compiling it.
> 
> Dunno if it's considered an acceptable fix, in case I can push it so it
> can get tested.

I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for 
every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with 
contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming 
this step won't require extracting the file?).

Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27 13:36         ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2023-07-27 13:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-07-27 16:12             ` Andrea Corallo
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-07-27 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:18 +0300
> Cc: stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
> 
> I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for 
> every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with 
> contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming 
> this step won't require extracting the file?).
> 
> Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.

It definitely isn't.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27 13:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-07-27 16:12             ` Andrea Corallo
  2023-07-27 16:25               ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-02 21:50               ` Stefan Kangas
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Andrea Corallo @ 2023-07-27 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Dmitry Gutov, stephen.molitor, 64712

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:18 +0300
>> Cc: stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
>> 
>> I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for 
>> every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with 
>> contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming 
>> this step won't require extracting the file?).
>> 
>> Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.
>
> It definitely isn't.

The closest solution to what Dmitry suggested is to actually remove the
cookie from the file so the eln is produced and we don't try to compile
it anymore.  It doesn't harm, again not the most elegant exit strategy
but at least is for free :)

  Andrea





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27 16:12             ` Andrea Corallo
@ 2023-07-27 16:25               ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-02 21:50               ` Stefan Kangas
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-07-27 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrea Corallo; +Cc: dmitry, stephen.molitor, 64712

> From: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org>
> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>,  stephen.molitor@icloud.com,
>   64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:12:47 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:18 +0300
> >> Cc: stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> >> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
> >> 
> >> I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for 
> >> every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with 
> >> contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming 
> >> this step won't require extracting the file?).
> >> 
> >> Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.
> >
> > It definitely isn't.
> 
> The closest solution to what Dmitry suggested is to actually remove the
> cookie from the file so the eln is produced and we don't try to compile
> it anymore.  It doesn't harm, again not the most elegant exit strategy
> but at least is for free :)

If we ever do consider this worth "fixing", yes.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-07-27 16:12             ` Andrea Corallo
  2023-07-27 16:25               ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-09-02 21:50               ` Stefan Kangas
  2023-09-03  5:15                 ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2023-09-02 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrea Corallo, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Dmitry Gutov, stephen.molitor, 64712

Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:18 +0300
>>> Cc: stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
>>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
>>>
>>> I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for
>>> every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with
>>> contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming
>>> this step won't require extracting the file?).
>>>
>>> Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.
>>
>> It definitely isn't.
>
> The closest solution to what Dmitry suggested is to actually remove the
> cookie from the file so the eln is produced and we don't try to compile
> it anymore.  It doesn't harm, again not the most elegant exit strategy
> but at least is for free :)

What was the reason that those cookies were added in the first place?

I see that they were added in commit 6c11214dc112, but it doesn't
explain why.  I personally can't see that it would make much of a
difference if we have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-02 21:50               ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2023-09-03  5:15                 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-05 23:11                   ` Stefan Kangas
  2023-09-06 12:26                   ` Dmitry Gutov
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-09-03  5:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: dmitry, acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:50:08 -0700
> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>, stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Andrea Corallo <acorallo@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> >
> >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:18 +0300
> >>> Cc: stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> >>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
> >>>
> >>> I suppose another approach would be along the lines of creating, for
> >>> every such file, an artefact in native-compile cache anyway, with
> >>> contents which would load the original uncompiled file (I'm assuming
> >>> this step won't require extracting the file?).
> >>>
> >>> Not sure if this is worth the hassle, though.
> >>
> >> It definitely isn't.
> >
> > The closest solution to what Dmitry suggested is to actually remove the
> > cookie from the file so the eln is produced and we don't try to compile
> > it anymore.  It doesn't harm, again not the most elegant exit strategy
> > but at least is for free :)
> 
> What was the reason that those cookies were added in the first place?

Not to slow down the build unnecessarily, I think.  Basically, the
same reason why we have "no-byte-compile: t" in some files: you get no
gains from doing that, you just waste CPU time.  And the waste is much
more significant with native compilation.

> I see that they were added in commit 6c11214dc112, but it doesn't
> explain why.

When that happens, I always search the mailing lists around the date
of the commit.  In this case, I found

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-09/msg00168.html

> I personally can't see that it would make much of a difference if we
> have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.

If nothing else, it will slow down startup (because each .eln files
needs to be loaded via dlopen, as opposed to .elc that is dumped into
the pdumper file), albeit insignificantly.  But if we do this with all
the autoload files we have, that could slow down in a more tangible
ways.  So basically we have here two minor annoyances: you can solve
one, but then you "gain" the other one.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-03  5:15                 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-09-05 23:11                   ` Stefan Kangas
  2023-09-06 11:29                     ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-06 12:26                   ` Dmitry Gutov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2023-09-05 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: dmitry, acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Not to slow down the build unnecessarily, I think.  Basically, the
> same reason why we have "no-byte-compile: t" in some files: you get no
> gains from doing that, you just waste CPU time.  And the waste is much
> more significant with native compilation.
>
>> I see that they were added in commit 6c11214dc112, but it doesn't
>> explain why.
>
> When that happens, I always search the mailing lists around the date
> of the commit.  In this case, I found
>
>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-09/msg00168.html
>
>> I personally can't see that it would make much of a difference if we
>> have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.
>
> If nothing else, it will slow down startup (because each .eln files
> needs to be loaded via dlopen, as opposed to .elc that is dumped into
> the pdumper file), albeit insignificantly.  But if we do this with all
> the autoload files we have, that could slow down in a more tangible
> ways.  So basically we have here two minor annoyances: you can solve
> one, but then you "gain" the other one.

Right.  So perhaps we should just live with it, and close this as
wontfix.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-05 23:11                   ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2023-09-06 11:29                     ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-06 12:09                       ` Stefan Kangas
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-09-06 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: dmitry, acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:16 -0700
> Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, dmitry@gutov.dev, stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 
> 	64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Not to slow down the build unnecessarily, I think.  Basically, the
> > same reason why we have "no-byte-compile: t" in some files: you get no
> > gains from doing that, you just waste CPU time.  And the waste is much
> > more significant with native compilation.
> >
> >> I see that they were added in commit 6c11214dc112, but it doesn't
> >> explain why.
> >
> > When that happens, I always search the mailing lists around the date
> > of the commit.  In this case, I found
> >
> >   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-09/msg00168.html
> >
> >> I personally can't see that it would make much of a difference if we
> >> have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.
> >
> > If nothing else, it will slow down startup (because each .eln files
> > needs to be loaded via dlopen, as opposed to .elc that is dumped into
> > the pdumper file), albeit insignificantly.  But if we do this with all
> > the autoload files we have, that could slow down in a more tangible
> > ways.  So basically we have here two minor annoyances: you can solve
> > one, but then you "gain" the other one.
> 
> Right.  So perhaps we should just live with it, and close this as
> wontfix.

That would be my preference, given that we don't see any significantly
better alternative.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-06 11:29                     ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-09-06 12:09                       ` Stefan Kangas
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2023-09-06 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: dmitry, acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

tags 64712 + wontfix
close 64712
thanks

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Right.  So perhaps we should just live with it, and close this as
>> wontfix.
>
> That would be my preference, given that we don't see any significantly
> better alternative.

Done.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-03  5:15                 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2023-09-05 23:11                   ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2023-09-06 12:26                   ` Dmitry Gutov
  2023-09-06 13:03                     ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2023-09-06 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii, Stefan Kangas; +Cc: acorallo, stephen.molitor, 64712

On 03/09/2023 08:15, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> I personally can't see that it would make much of a difference if we
>> have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.
> If nothing else, it will slow down startup (because each .eln files
> needs to be loaded via dlopen, as opposed to .elc that is dumped into
> the pdumper file), albeit insignificantly.  But if we do this with all
> the autoload files we have, that could slow down in a more tangible
> ways.  So basically we have here two minor annoyances: you can solve
> one, but then you "gain" the other one.

So you suppose

   - Findinb .eln in its load path
   - dlopen-ing it

can be slower than

   - Looking for .eln in its load path, not finding it
   - Extracting cl-loaddefs.el from cl-loaddefs.el.gz
   - Loading it

?





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

* bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup
  2023-09-06 12:26                   ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2023-09-06 13:03                     ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-09-06 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: acorallo, stephen.molitor, stefankangas, 64712

> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 15:26:20 +0300
> Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, stephen.molitor@icloud.com, 64712@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
> 
> On 03/09/2023 08:15, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> I personally can't see that it would make much of a difference if we
> >> have them or not, but maybe I'm missing something.
> > If nothing else, it will slow down startup (because each .eln files
> > needs to be loaded via dlopen, as opposed to .elc that is dumped into
> > the pdumper file), albeit insignificantly.  But if we do this with all
> > the autoload files we have, that could slow down in a more tangible
> > ways.  So basically we have here two minor annoyances: you can solve
> > one, but then you "gain" the other one.
> 
> So you suppose
> 
>    - Findinb .eln in its load path
>    - dlopen-ing it
> 
> can be slower than
> 
>    - Looking for .eln in its load path, not finding it
>    - Extracting cl-loaddefs.el from cl-loaddefs.el.gz
>    - Loading it
> 
> ?

No.  But that's not what happens.  What does happen in the second case
is that we load the .elc file, and then, asynchronously and in a
separate Emacs session, try to native-compile the .el file.  So this:

>    - Looking for .eln in its load path, not finding it
>    - Extracting cl-loaddefs.el from cl-loaddefs.el.gz
>    - Loading it

happens in parallel with the Emacs session running, not sequentially.
And if the .elc file is in the pdumper file, we don't even load it,
it's already loaded.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-09-06 13:03 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 18+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-07-18 14:47 bug#64712: 29.0.92; Emacs 29 with native compilation compiles cl-loaddefs.el on every startup Stephen Molitor via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-07-18 16:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-07-27  1:50   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-27  5:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-07-27  9:03       ` Andrea Corallo
2023-07-27  9:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-07-27  9:56           ` Andrea Corallo
2023-07-27 13:36         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-07-27 13:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-07-27 16:12             ` Andrea Corallo
2023-07-27 16:25               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-02 21:50               ` Stefan Kangas
2023-09-03  5:15                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-05 23:11                   ` Stefan Kangas
2023-09-06 11:29                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 12:09                       ` Stefan Kangas
2023-09-06 12:26                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-09-06 13:03                     ` Eli Zaretskii

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