From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>
Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Builder, a build system integration for Emacs
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 19:20:56 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <831qj4mlg7.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <beae68ea9188c4433e8d@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 25 May 2023 14:36:40 +0000)
> Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 14:36:40 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>
> cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> > The answers were clear, but they didn't present any solutions to the
> > issues I brought up. None of the tools I'm aware of, including Cargo,
> > support interactive selection of dependencies based on their features
> > and requirements, nor provide any decision support for the kind of
> > decisions I described. They allow you to specify a version, but leave
> > the actual decision process to you. And if that is the case, why do I
> > need them? I can easily build stuff myself once I've figured out which
> > versions of what dependencies I need.
> >
> > And there's no need for you to work hard to try to represent the
> > problems as having their solutions. Those build tools do not intend to
> > solve those problems, they don't even consider them problems. They
> > "know better". The facilities you described are nothing more than lip
> > service.
> >
>
> Then I guess I don't understand what these problems are, and what kind of
> solution you are after. Let's take a concrete example of a popular Rust
> program: ripgrep. All you need to build it is:
>
> git clone https://github.com/BurntSushi/ripgrep
> cargo build --release
>
> or (even simpler):
>
> cargo install ripgrep
>
> That (relatively simple) program depends on no less than 37 Rust
> libraries, and has two optional build options, "pcre2" and "simd-accel".
> If you activate these two options the program depends on 45 libraries.
> What would you want do do with those 45 libraries? What do you mean in
> this concrete case by "interactive selection of dependencies based on
> their features and requirements"?
I don't see how I can add anything to what I described already, and in
detail; see
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-05/msg00578.html
What I'd like is for the installation procedure to present the
information I need for making those decisions, and help me make them.
Btw, I was only talking about optional dependencies. For mandatory
dependencies, the only important aspect is whether I'd need to upgrade
libraries I already have to newer versions, and if so, whether those
newer versions will cause compatibility problems with programs I have
installed that use those libraries. This is also something a typical
package installation will not let me control: they will just upgrade
the other programs as well, whether I want that or not.
Anyway, I don't see why we should continue this sub-thread: I just
wanted to express my deep mistrust of any such "automatic installation
and build" packages; YMMV.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-05-25 16:20 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 101+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-05-21 10:21 [PROPOSAL] Builder, a build system integration for Emacs BTuin
2023-05-21 12:11 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-05-21 14:56 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-21 17:24 ` Jim Porter
2023-05-21 19:33 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-21 19:58 ` Jim Porter
2023-05-21 21:36 ` John Yates
2023-05-22 16:35 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-23 0:44 ` Po Lu
2023-05-23 21:10 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-23 21:17 ` Óscar Fuentes
2023-05-24 6:09 ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2023-05-24 21:35 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-24 23:32 ` Jim Porter
2023-05-25 0:11 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 4:00 ` tomas
2023-05-25 6:53 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 7:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-25 9:33 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 11:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-25 11:53 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 13:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-25 14:36 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2023-05-25 16:40 ` tomas
2023-05-25 19:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-26 0:57 ` Po Lu
2023-05-27 0:24 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-26 5:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-26 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-27 0:25 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-28 10:20 ` Madhu
2023-05-28 12:38 ` Po Lu
2023-05-29 22:03 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-29 22:42 ` Po Lu
2023-05-30 7:26 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-30 12:54 ` Po Lu
2023-05-30 15:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-30 16:50 ` chad
2023-05-31 1:14 ` Po Lu
2023-06-05 1:09 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-05 5:29 ` Po Lu
2023-06-05 8:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-05 9:06 ` Po Lu
2023-06-17 3:34 ` Yilkal Argaw
2023-05-27 14:55 ` Brian Cully via Emacs development discussions.
2023-05-26 0:54 ` Po Lu
2023-05-26 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-27 0:26 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-27 2:37 ` Ruijie Yu via Emacs development discussions.
2023-05-28 21:48 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-29 22:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-30 13:01 ` Po Lu
2023-05-30 15:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-31 1:16 ` Po Lu
2023-06-02 21:38 ` Richard Stallman
2023-06-05 1:10 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-05 5:19 ` Po Lu
2023-06-05 8:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-06-05 9:00 ` Po Lu
2023-05-31 22:28 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-30 21:52 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-28 21:48 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-25 13:16 ` chad
2023-05-25 19:38 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-26 21:32 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-27 9:45 ` Yuri Khan
2023-05-28 21:48 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-29 8:03 ` Yuri Khan
2023-05-30 21:47 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-25 7:55 ` tomas
2023-05-25 8:44 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 10:38 ` Po Lu
2023-05-25 11:44 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-25 12:02 ` Po Lu
2023-05-25 12:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-26 0:52 ` Po Lu
2023-05-26 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-27 0:26 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-28 21:47 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-29 22:05 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-05-30 13:03 ` Po Lu
2023-05-31 22:29 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-26 22:59 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-05-28 21:22 ` Björn Bidar
2023-05-29 22:38 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-29 22:38 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-30 4:28 ` tomas
2023-05-25 10:42 ` Po Lu
2023-05-25 19:36 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-22 22:00 ` Richard Stallman
2023-05-23 8:36 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-05-23 11:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-23 12:13 ` Po Lu
2023-05-23 18:46 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-24 6:32 ` Juri Linkov
2023-05-24 20:09 ` Augustin Chéneau (BTuin)
2023-05-24 3:34 ` David Masterson
2023-05-24 10:26 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-05-28 21:17 ` Björn Bidar
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-05-27 7:12 [PROPOSAL] " Payas Relekar
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