Question on updating to 29.1

Question on updating to 29.1

[PierGianLuca]

Hi everyone!

I have version 28.1 that I "make install"ed on a Ubuntu machine, for the first time. I'd like to update to 29.1 and my question is: do I need to do anything about the old version? it will simply be replaced? I can't find anything about this in the official documentation, say at

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/INSTALL

Sorry if the question is silly or my terminology is not correct – I'm quite unfamiliar with compilation and versioning.

Cheers,
Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Philip Kaludercic]

PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> writes:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I have version 28.1 that I "make install"ed on a Ubuntu machine, for
> the first time. I'd like to update to 29.1 and my question is: do I
> need to do anything about the old version? it will simply be replaced?
> I can't find anything about this in the official documentation, say at

Did you install version 28.1 from a Git checkout or from a tarball?  If
you have used Git to fetch the source, you should be able to update to
the most recent version of Emacs using a "git pull" or "git checkout
emacs-29" (or whatever other branch, tag, commit).  If you have
installed it from a tarball, you will need to download a new release.
This link should redirect you to a close-by FTP mirror: 

  http://ftpmirror.gnu.org/emacs/emacs/emacs-29.1.tar.xz

The installation procedure should be similar or even analogous to the
installation for Emacs 28, with the possible exception of additional
./configure flags that you might be interested in, which have been added
in Emacs 29.

> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/INSTALL
>
> Sorry if the question is silly or my terminology is not correct – I'm quite unfamiliar with compilation and versioning.
>
> Cheers,
> Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[PierGianLuca]

Thank you Philip and Basile (who gave me advice off-list).

Sorry for not being clear:

> Did you install version 28.1 from a Git checkout or from a tarball?

Tarball. I first *un*installed the Ubuntu pre-packaged Emacs.

I considered fetching from git, but it would add a layer of things that I don't fully understand.

So I can simply re-do what I with 28.1 (with minor changes as Philip warned about), and the new Emacs version will simply replace the old.

Maybe just a short sentence about this can be added to the INSTALL/README files?

Cheers!
Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 8/11/23 10:45, PierGianLuca wrote:
> Thank you Philip and Basile (who gave me advice off-list).
>
> Sorry for not being clear:
>
>> Did you install version 28.1 from a Git checkout or from a tarball?
>
> Tarball. I first *un*installed the Ubuntu pre-packaged Emacs.
>
> I considered fetching from git, but it would add a layer of things 
> that I don't fully understand.
>
> So I can simply re-do what I with 28.1 (with minor changes as Philip 
> warned about), and the new Emacs version will simply replace the old.


Don't replace but do have both.

Keep Ubuntu emacs on /usr/bin/emacs. Perhaps reinstall that package.

Kepp your compiled emacs on /usr/local/bin/emacs or 
/usr/local/bin/my-emacs or $HOME/bin/emacs


You need to run the configure script appropriately.

I did configure my emacs-30 from source code using:

'./configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13' 
'--with-native-compilation' '--with-json' 
'--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3' 
'--program-suffix=-trunk'

adapt that command to your tastes and settings.

On Linux, choosing between old emacs and youre new one is mostly a 
matter of

configuring your window manager

defining appropriate GNU bash (or Unix shell) functions or aliases to 
run your emacs or Ubuntu emacs

setting a correct $PATH ; mine (set in  ~/.zshrc since my shell is 
zsh.org) 
$HOME/.opam/default/bin:$HOME/bin:$HOME/scripts:/usr/local/bin:$HOME/.opam/default/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin

NB. My pet free software project is the RefPerSys inference engine on 
https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys/ - contributors are welcome.

-- 
Basile Starynkevitch                  <basile@starynkevitch.net>
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Emanuel Berg]

Basile Starynkevitch wrote:

> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
> '--program-suffix=-trunk'

--enable-link-time-optimization, interesting, what is that?

> setting a correct $PATH

+1

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:45:29 +0200
> From: PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org>
> 
> Thank you Philip and Basile (who gave me advice off-list).
> 
> Sorry for not being clear:
> 
> > Did you install version 28.1 from a Git checkout or from a tarball?
> 
> Tarball. I first *un*installed the Ubuntu pre-packaged Emacs.
> 
> I considered fetching from git, but it would add a layer of things that I don't fully understand.
> 
> So I can simply re-do what I with 28.1 (with minor changes as Philip warned about), and the new Emacs version will simply replace the old.
> 
> Maybe just a short sentence about this can be added to the INSTALL/README files?

A short sentence that basically says there's nothing special to do
when you already have an older version installed?  Why is this needed?
In general, if there's no problem, we don't say in the instructions
that there's no problem ;-)

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 8/11/23 12:16, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
>
>> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
>> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
>> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
>> '--program-suffix=-trunk'
> --enable-link-time-optimization, interesting, what is that?

https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gccint/LTO.html



-- 
Basile Starynkevitch                  <basile@starynkevitch.net>
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Emanuel Berg]

Basile Starynkevitch wrote:

>>> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
>>> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
>>> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
>>> '--program-suffix=-trunk'
>>
>> --enable-link-time-optimization, interesting, what is that?
>
> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gccint/LTO.html

Does it optimize compilation or the executable?

Anyway I built Emacs with that with gcc 10, and no complains.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Jens Schmidt via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

On 2023-08-11  13:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Maybe just a short sentence about this can be added to the INSTALL/README files?
> 
> A short sentence that basically says there's nothing special to do
> when you already have an older version installed?  Why is this needed?
> In general, if there's no problem, we don't say in the instructions
> that there's no problem ;-)

Now that's interesting: Suppose we have file foobar.el(c) from Emacs 28
installed by "make install" somewhere below, say, /usr/local/...

Suppose further foobar.el got removed in Emacs 29.  Will it be actively
removed from /usr/local/... by a "make install" of Emacs 29?

Not sure whether this is what is worrying the OP, but that (and, more 
generally, version consistency issues) would worry me if used "make
install" to "upgrade" a local installation.

Or have I missed something here?

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 00:04:07 +0200
> From: Jens Schmidt <jschmidt4gnu@vodafonemail.de>
> 
> On 2023-08-11  13:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Maybe just a short sentence about this can be added to the INSTALL/README files?
> > 
> > A short sentence that basically says there's nothing special to do
> > when you already have an older version installed?  Why is this needed?
> > In general, if there's no problem, we don't say in the instructions
> > that there's no problem ;-)
> 
> Now that's interesting: Suppose we have file foobar.el(c) from Emacs 28
> installed by "make install" somewhere below, say, /usr/local/...
> 
> Suppose further foobar.el got removed in Emacs 29.  Will it be actively
> removed from /usr/local/... by a "make install" of Emacs 29?

No.  And there's no need to, see below.

> Not sure whether this is what is worrying the OP, but that (and, more 
> generally, version consistency issues) would worry me if used "make
> install" to "upgrade" a local installation.
> 
> Or have I missed something here?

I think you have missed that Lisp files are installed into a
version-specific subdirectory of /usr/local/share/ (as in
/usr/local/share/emacs/29.1/lisp/).  So files installed with some
version of Emacs are in the directory not searched by another version.

The Emacs installation method is designed in a way that allows you to
have several Emacs versions installed on the same system.  Only one of
them, the one you installed the last, is invoked by the name "emacs",
but all the others can be invoked by their numbered names, as in
"emacs-28.2" etc.  An installed version of Emacs will only be removed
if you explicitly run "make uninstall" in the build directory of that
version.

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[PierGianLuca]

Hi Eli,

> The Emacs installation method is designed in a way that allows you to
> have several Emacs versions installed on the same system.  Only one of
> them, the one you installed the last, is invoked by the name "emacs",
> but all the others can be invoked by their numbered names, as in
> "emacs-28.2" etc.  An installed version of Emacs will only be removed
> if you explicitly run "make uninstall" in the build directory of that
> version.


Thank you, this is very useful information. Wouldn't this be useful in the INSTALL files? or maybe it's already there. I might want to keep one previous version just in case, but no other.

Should I do "make uninstall" for the previous version after I install the new version, or before, or it doesn't matter?

Thanks everyone for your help!
Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 08:08:59 +0200
> From: PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org>
> 
> Hi Eli,
> 
> > The Emacs installation method is designed in a way that allows you to
> > have several Emacs versions installed on the same system.  Only one of
> > them, the one you installed the last, is invoked by the name "emacs",
> > but all the others can be invoked by their numbered names, as in
> > "emacs-28.2" etc.  An installed version of Emacs will only be removed
> > if you explicitly run "make uninstall" in the build directory of that
> > version.
> 
> 
> Thank you, this is very useful information. Wouldn't this be useful in the INSTALL files? or maybe it's already there. I might want to keep one previous version just in case, but no other.

This is standard GNU structure of Make targets, every GNU project
follows that.  You can find the list of standard targets in the node
"Standard Targets" of the "GNU Coding Standards" document.

I find no reason to duplicate that information in Emacs, as that would
waste space for no good reason, and will not be discoverable enough to
make the difference anyway.  Stuff that "just works" doesn't need any
prominent documentation in the first place.

> Should I do "make uninstall" for the previous version after I install the new version, or before, or it doesn't matter?

It's up to you.  I personally never uninstall old Emacs versions, but
that's because having them makes it easy for me, as an Emacs
developer, to check how old versions behaved in specific situations
and when did a specific bug start to happen.  Another consideration is
that if you upgrade your system, some old versions might not run
anymore, at which time they are just using up disk space, and should
probably be removed.  (In this regard my hat off to Microsoft, because
I still have a Windows port of Emacs 21.4, built 17 years ago, running
just fine on my current MS-Windows system, after several OS
migrations, whereas Trisquel GNU/Linux, for example, tends to break
binaries compiled with older OS versions upon every significant OS
upgrade.)

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Petteri Hintsanen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> The Emacs installation method is designed in a way that allows you to
> have several Emacs versions installed on the same system.  Only one of
> them, the one you installed the last, is invoked by the name "emacs",
> but all the others can be invoked by their numbered names, as in
> "emacs-28.2" etc.  An installed version of Emacs will only be removed
> if you explicitly run "make uninstall" in the build directory of that
> version.

I was not aware of this feature.  It sounds very useful indeed.  Over the
years, I have routinely done "make uninstall" before upgrading to new Emacs.

Thanks,
Petteri

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[PierGianLuca]

Hi everyone,

I'm finally getting around to installing Emacs 29.1 (from the tarball, on Ubuntu 20.04), and was looking at the options listed by Basile. I have some questions or curiosities:

> Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
> 
>> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
>> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
>> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
>> '--program-suffix=-trunk'

– I don't have gcc-13, so I'll skip that.

– "--with-native-compilation" what does this do? I imagine it's something not specifically related to Emacs.

– "--with-json" ditto?

– "with-x-toolkit=gtk3" is this option already chosen by default? I see that the Emacs install instructions say

"If you use exclusively X, do not use the PGTK port.  There are a number of respects in which the regular --with-x-toolkit=gtk build works better"

which sounds like "=gtk" is the default


Thank you for any info you can share, and for your patience with someone inexperienced with these kinds of installations!

Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Corwin Brust]

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 11:17 AM PierGianLuca
<luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,

Hi Luca!

>
> – "--with-native-compilation" what does this do? I imagine it's something not specifically related to Emacs.

This feature, added with Emacs 28, enables using libgccjit to compile
"platform native" versions of byte-compiled elisp on the fly.  Many
people find it improves Emacs performance, especially for computation
heavy work.

>
> – "--with-json" ditto?

This compiles Emacs with libjansson, which provides JSON parsing

>
> – "with-x-toolkit=gtk3" is this option already chosen by default? I see that the Emacs install instructions say
>

This build Emacs for use with GTK3, and should be used only if you
have wayland (and not if you use X)

> "If you use exclusively X, do not use the PGTK port.  There are a number of respects in which the regular --with-x-toolkit=gtk build works better"
>
> which sounds like "=gtk" is the default
>

That's right afaik.

>
> Thank you for any info you can share, and for your patience with someone inexperienced with these kinds of installations!
>

Hope you are enjoying Emacs!

Corwin

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[PierGianLuca]

Hi Corwin,

Thank you so much for the kind answer!! I've now successfully compiled and installed Emacs 29.1 – and enjoying it! :)

Had never used "--with-native-compilation" before, and I can really see it's faster (or it's just a psychological effect).

I've written down all the help and explanations received here for next time :)

Cheers,
Luca

On 230817 19:01, Corwin Brust wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 11:17 AM PierGianLuca
> <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
> 
> Hi Luca!
> 
>>
>> – "--with-native-compilation" what does this do? I imagine it's something not specifically related to Emacs.
> 
> This feature, added with Emacs 28, enables using libgccjit to compile
> "platform native" versions of byte-compiled elisp on the fly.  Many
> people find it improves Emacs performance, especially for computation
> heavy work.
> 
>>
>> – "--with-json" ditto?
> 
> This compiles Emacs with libjansson, which provides JSON parsing
> 
>>
>> – "with-x-toolkit=gtk3" is this option already chosen by default? I see that the Emacs install instructions say
>>
> 
> This build Emacs for use with GTK3, and should be used only if you
> have wayland (and not if you use X)
> 
>> "If you use exclusively X, do not use the PGTK port.  There are a number of respects in which the regular --with-x-toolkit=gtk build works better"
>>
>> which sounds like "=gtk" is the default
>>
> 
> That's right afaik.
> 
>>
>> Thank you for any info you can share, and for your patience with someone inexperienced with these kinds of installations!
>>
> 
> Hope you are enjoying Emacs!
> 
> Corwin

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 8/17/23 18:17, PierGianLuca wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm finally getting around to installing Emacs 29.1 (from the tarball, 
> on Ubuntu 20.04), and was looking at the options listed by Basile. I 
> have some questions or curiosities:
>
>> Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
>>
>>> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
>>> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
>>> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
>>> '--program-suffix=-trunk'
>
> – I don't have gcc-13, so I'll skip that.
>
> – "--with-native-compilation" what does this do? I imagine it's 
> something not specifically related to Emacs.


In recent GNU emacs (30) there is a possibility to compile the Elisp 
code to machine code, using libgccjit.

And libgccjit is a "pseudo"' just in time compiler in recent GCC 
compiler. Documented in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/jit/ and existing 
in GCC 12.

(Those wanting a real just in time compiler should consider using the 
GNU lightning library, see https://www.gnu.org/software/lightning/ ; it 
is not GCC related, smaller, but generates slower machine code than 
libgccjit).

>
> – "--with-json" ditto?


  I think it is related to understanding JSON. Using the jansson library 
see http://www.digip.org/jansson/ and https://github.com/akheron/jansson 
and https://www.json.org/json-en.html

>
> – "with-x-toolkit=gtk3" is this option already chosen by default? I 
> see that the Emacs install instructions say
>
> "If you use exclusively X, do not use the PGTK port.  There are a 
> number of respects in which the regular --with-x-toolkit=gtk build 
> works better"
>
> which sounds like "=gtk" is the default
>
>
> Thank you for any info you can share, and for your patience with 
> someone inexperienced with these kinds of installations!
>
> Luca



BTW, my pet open source project is the RefPerSys inference engine on 
https://github.com/RefPerSys/RefPerSys - contributors are welcome. See 
also some ideas from https://arxiv.org/pdf/1109.0779.pdf

-- 
Basile Starynkevitch                  <basile@starynkevitch.net>
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Philip Kaludercic]

PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> writes:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm finally getting around to installing Emacs 29.1 (from the tarball,
> on Ubuntu 20.04), and was looking at the options listed by Basile. I
> have some questions or curiosities:

You can always invoke ./configure --help to get a list of all the
possible options along with short descriptions to understand the point.

>> Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
>> 
>>> './configure'  'CFLAGS=-O2 -g' 'CC=/usr/bin/gcc-13'
>>> '--with-native-compilation' '--with-json'
>>> '--enable-link-time-optimization' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3'
>>> '--program-suffix=-trunk'
>
> – I don't have gcc-13, so I'll skip that.

FWIW usually you don't need to pass configure any flags.  Often enough
it will figure out what it can enabled, depending on what dependencies
are available on your system.  I believe --with-native-compilation is an
exception, though I am not certain...

> – "--with-native-compilation" what does this do? I imagine it's something not specifically related to Emacs.
>
> – "--with-json" ditto?

Others have gone into what this is, but the background might be
interesting: While Emacs has had JSON parsing for a while, it was
written in Emacs Lisp and that turns out to have been too low if you are
interested in using packages like Eglot, the built-in LSP client, that
send around a lot of JSON-formatted data.

> – "with-x-toolkit=gtk3" is this option already chosen by default? I see that the Emacs install instructions say
>
> "If you use exclusively X, do not use the PGTK port.  There are a number of respects in which the regular --with-x-toolkit=gtk build works better"

Whenever I am on an X system, I even prefer using
--with-x-toolkit=lucid, especially if you are the kind of Emacs user
that hides the GUI toolkit (things like the menu, tool or scroll-bar).

> which sounds like "=gtk" is the default
>
>
> Thank you for any info you can share, and for your patience with someone inexperienced with these kinds of installations!
>
> Luca

Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit (was: Question on updating to 29.1)

[PierGianLuca]

Hi Philip,

Thank you so much for the extra info and explanations! Especially this:

> Whenever I am on an X system, I even prefer using
> --with-x-toolkit=lucid, especially if you are the kind of Emacs user
> that hides the GUI toolkit (things like the menu, tool or scroll-bar).

Indeed I only use a vertical scroll bar, and hide the rest. So now I recompiled and reinstalled with --with-x-toolkit=lucid. It's working nicely so far!

I see that some pop-ups (for example when you hover over some buttons in a customize window) look different. I'd like to decrease their font, which is too big, but I'm not managing to find the appropriate customization item or variable. Does anyone know its name, or if decreasing this font is at all possible?

Cheers,
Luca

Solved: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit (was: Question on updating to 29.1)

[PierGianLuca]

Hi everyone, found the face: Tooltip (I was looking for "pop" keywords). Rescaling the height parameter solved the problem.

Thanks again everyone for the help with compilation!
Luca

On 230819 13:05, PierGianLuca wrote:
> Hi Philip,
> 
> Thank you so much for the extra info and explanations! Especially this:
> 
>> Whenever I am on an X system, I even prefer using
>> --with-x-toolkit=lucid, especially if you are the kind of Emacs user
>> that hides the GUI toolkit (things like the menu, tool or scroll-bar).
> 
> Indeed I only use a vertical scroll bar, and hide the rest. So now I recompiled and reinstalled with --with-x-toolkit=lucid. It's working nicely so far!
> 
> I see that some pop-ups (for example when you hover over some buttons in a customize window) look different. I'd like to decrease their font, which is too big, but I'm not managing to find the appropriate customization item or variable. Does anyone know its name, or if decreasing this font is at all possible?
> 
> Cheers,
> Luca

Re: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit (was: Question on updating to 29.1)

[Gregory Heytings]

>
> I see that some pop-ups (for example when you hover over some buttons in 
> a customize window) look different. I'd like to decrease their font, 
> which is too big, but I'm not managing to find the appropriate 
> customization item or variable. Does anyone know its name, or if 
> decreasing this font is at all possible?
>

It is possible.  You can either use the customize interface:

M-x customize-face RET tooltip RET

and change the height attribute there, or add a line to your init file:

(set-face-attribute 'tooltip nil :height 100)

Re: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit (was: Question on updating to 29.1)

[PierGianLuca]

Thanks Gregory!

On 230819 13:13, Gregory Heytings wrote:
> 
>>
>> I see that some pop-ups (for example when you hover over some buttons in a customize window) look different. I'd like to decrease their font, which is too big, but I'm not managing to find the appropriate customization item or variable. Does anyone know its name, or if decreasing this font is at all possible?
>>
> 
> It is possible.  You can either use the customize interface:
> 
> M-x customize-face RET tooltip RET
> 
> and change the height attribute there, or add a line to your init file:
> 
> (set-face-attribute 'tooltip nil :height 100)
> 

Re: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit

[Philip Kaludercic]

PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> writes:

> Hi Philip,

BTW, when responding to someone here on the mailing list, try to compose
your messages with a wide reply.  I am not subscribed to the mailing
list, and only check by occasionally, so it is easy for me to miss a
response.

> Thank you so much for the extra info and explanations! Especially this:
>
>> Whenever I am on an X system, I even prefer using
>> --with-x-toolkit=lucid, especially if you are the kind of Emacs user
>> that hides the GUI toolkit (things like the menu, tool or scroll-bar).
>
> Indeed I only use a vertical scroll bar, and hide the rest. So now I recompiled and reinstalled with --with-x-toolkit=lucid. It's working nicely so far!
>
> I see that some pop-ups (for example when you hover over some buttons
> in a customize window) look different. I'd like to decrease their
> font, which is too big, but I'm not managing to find the appropriate
> customization item or variable. Does anyone know its name, or if
> decreasing this font is at all possible?
>
> Cheers,
> Luca

Re: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit

[PierGianLuca]

On 230820 14:36, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> BTW, when responding to someone here on the mailing list, try to compose
> your messages with a wide reply.  I am not subscribed to the mailing
> list, and only check by occasionally, so it is easy for me to miss a
> response.

Sorry, I didn't know this was the policy here. I'm on other mailing lists where this is discouraged instead, to avoid double emails.

Cheers,
Luca

Re: Pop-up font size with lucid toolkit

[Philip Kaludercic]

PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> writes:

> On 230820 14:36, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> BTW, when responding to someone here on the mailing list, try to compose
>> your messages with a wide reply.  I am not subscribed to the mailing
>> list, and only check by occasionally, so it is easy for me to miss a
>> response.
>
> Sorry, I didn't know this was the policy here. I'm on other mailing lists where this is discouraged instead, to avoid double emails.

AFAIU GNU Mailman can check if a person will have received a response
anyway, and not send you a copy of the message in that case.

But here, on emacs-devel and the bug tracker, wide replies are normal.

> Cheers,
> Luca

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

PierGianLuca <luca@magnaspesmeretrix.org> writes:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I have version 28.1 that I "make install"ed on a Ubuntu machine, for the first
> time. I'd like to update to 29.1 and my question is: do I need to do anything
> about the old version? it will simply be replaced? I can't find anything about
> this in the official documentation, say at
>
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/INSTALL
>
> Sorry if the question is silly or my terminology is not correct – I'm quite unfamiliar with compilation and versioning.
>
> Cheers,
> Luca

Sorry for late.

In my case, i did upgrade from bookworm to sid (Debian distro). Now i
have GNU Emacs 29.1 version.

Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.

And i like this emacs 29.1 very much!

<quote>
soyeomul@thinkpad:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
trixie/sid
soyeomul@thinkpad:~$ dpkg -l | grep emacs-pgtk
ii  emacs-pgtk                                 1:29.1+1-5
amd64        GNU Emacs editor (with GTK+ Wayland GUI support)
soyeomul@thinkpad:~$
</quote>

Thanks,

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Emanuel Berg]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

> In my case, i did upgrade from bookworm to sid (Debian
> distro). Now i have GNU Emacs 29.1 version.

Sid is the development version of Debian while Bookworm AKA
Debian 12 is the most recent, stable version of Debian.

I don't know what the reason was for you to use Sid, but if it
is to get a more recent Emacs version it is better to keep the
distribution stable, and install Emacs manually. Then you get
the most recent version of Emacs - i.e. even more recent than
what you get from the Sid repos - while still having the
stable Linux distro beneath it.

Especially since it is so easy ot build Emacs manually.

> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.

What do you mean?

> And i like this emacs 29.1 very much!

If you build Emacs yourself you can get

  GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.16.0)
  of 2023-09-08 [commit a2f977d94e0356c7414876e988adedd2ab7b52f2]

and you can configure with --with-native-compilation to make
it much faster. Just try - and you will fly :P

Useful commands:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zsh/install-emacs

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[hw]

On Thu, 2023-08-17 at 20:58 +0200, Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
> 
> In recent GNU emacs (30) there is a possibility to compile the Elisp 
> code to machine code, using libgccjit.
> 
> And libgccjit is a "pseudo"' just in time compiler in recent GCC 
> compiler. Documented in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/jit/ and existing 
> in GCC 12.
> 
> (Those wanting a real just in time compiler should consider using the 
> GNU lightning library, see https://www.gnu.org/software/lightning/ ; it 
> is not GCC related, smaller, but generates slower machine code than 
> libgccjit).

Does that happen automatically or do I need to somehow configure
something for this?  I followed this guide:
https://github.com/NapoleonWils0n/cerberus/blob/master/fedora/emacs-build-fedora.org

I'm wondering why Fedora still has only the X11 version of emacs which
doesn't even work right.  Wayland is the default since a while, so
Fedora needs a wayland version.

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: hw <hw@adminart.net>
> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 20:21:05 +0200
> 
> On Thu, 2023-08-17 at 20:58 +0200, Basile Starynkevitch wrote:
> > 
> > In recent GNU emacs (30) there is a possibility to compile the Elisp 
> > code to machine code, using libgccjit.
> > 
> > And libgccjit is a "pseudo"' just in time compiler in recent GCC 
> > compiler. Documented in https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/jit/ and existing 
> > in GCC 12.
> > 
> > (Those wanting a real just in time compiler should consider using the 
> > GNU lightning library, see https://www.gnu.org/software/lightning/ ; it 
> > is not GCC related, smaller, but generates slower machine code than 
> > libgccjit).
> 
> Does that happen automatically or do I need to somehow configure
> something for this?  I followed this guide:
> https://github.com/NapoleonWils0n/cerberus/blob/master/fedora/emacs-build-fedora.org

If you build Emacs with native-compilation enabled (it is not the
default for now), then the compilation itself happens autiomatically,
yes.

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Emanuel Berg]

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

> In my case, i did upgrade from bookworm to sid (Debian
> distro). Now i have GNU Emacs 29.1 version.

Thanks for mentioning this, I just now upgraded Debian 11
(bullseye) to Debian 12 (bookworm) now!

After doing that, I had to do

  $ sudo apt-get install build-essential debian-goodies libgccjit-10-dev

before upgrading Emacs.

The distro should do that automatically but, for whatever
reason, in the case of libgccjit-10-dev, it didn't.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

>> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
>
> What do you mean?

I think that manaual building is not easy. Maybe there is a package
for emacs 29.1 of Ubuntu?

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[జిందం వాఐి]

On 2023-10-05 22:47, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> 
>> In my case, i did upgrade from bookworm to sid (Debian
>> distro). Now i have GNU Emacs 29.1 version.
> 
> Sid is the development version of Debian while Bookworm AKA
> Debian 12 is the most recent, stable version of Debian.
> 
> I don't know what the reason was for you to use Sid, but if it
> is to get a more recent Emacs version it is better to keep the
> distribution stable

if i want latest versions in stable_
* stable is installed on your device
* add backports sources.list
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-backports main
* check for package versions available
in tracker [ 1 ]
* emacs 29.1 is available in
bookworm-backports [ stable-bpo aka
debian 12 backports], trixie [ testing aka debian 13 ],
sid [ 2 ]
* if package is not available in stable or
stable-bpo but only in testing or sid
   * i would first install on my spare device
or vm, use it for weeks and ok with it,
i would do dist-upgrade my stable
* as a last resort, or feel confident, or
simply bravely, install sid

> , and install Emacs manually.
>  Then you get
> the most recent version of Emacs - i.e. even more recent than
> what you get from the Sid repos - while still having the
> stable Linux distro beneath it.
> 
> Especially since it is so easy ot build Emacs manually.
> 
>> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
> 
> What do you mean?
> 
>> And i like this emacs 29.1 very much!

> Thanks for mentioning this, I just now upgraded Debian 11
> (bullseye) to Debian 12 (bookworm) now!
> 
> After doing that, I had to do
> 
>   $ sudo apt-get install build-essential debian-goodies 
> libgccjit-10-dev
> 
> before upgrading Emacs.
> 
> The distro should do that automatically but, for whatever
> reason, in the case of libgccjit-10-dev, it didn't.

* libgccjit-10-dev is not available in stable [ 3 ]
* ask in debian irc, #debian on oftc.net about
version 10
* libgccjit-11-dev is available on stable, testing,
sid [ 4 ]

[ 1 ] https://tracker.debian.org/
[ 2 ] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/emacs
[ 3 ] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gcc-10
[ 4 ] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gcc-11

-- 
regards,
జిందం వాఐి [ jindam, vani ]
toots_ @jindam_vani@ieji.de
[matrix]_ @jindam.vani:oikei.net

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Yuri Khan]

On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 at 06:52, Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote:
>
> >> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
> >
> > What do you mean?
>
> I think that manaual building is not easy. Maybe there is a package
> for emacs 29.1 of Ubuntu?

There’s this PPA that hosts the package backported from Debian Sid:

    https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuhandbook1/+archive/ubuntu/emacs

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 at 06:52, Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote:
>>
>> >> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
>> >
>> > What do you mean?
>>
>> I think that manaual building is not easy. Maybe there is a package
>> for emacs 29.1 of Ubuntu?
>
> There’s this PPA that hosts the package backported from Debian Sid:
>
>     https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuhandbook1/+archive/ubuntu/emacs

Thanks Yuri, i'm also Ubuntu user as like Luca (OP).

Sincerely, Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Question on updating to 29.1 (on Ubuntu)

[PierGianLuca]

Hi Byung-Hee,

I actually managed to compile the stable version without any problems on Ubuntu 20.04. Quite happy with the result. I list here some links that have been useful in understanding different aspects of the installation, and then the sequence of commands I used. Many people on this list have been very helpful in understanding several aspects of this.

Cheers,
Luca

- Useful links:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BuildingEmacs
https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/whats-new-in-emacs-29-1
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/INSTALL
https://www.taingram.org/blog/emacs-native-comp.html
https://practical.li/blog/posts/build-emacs-from-source-on-ubuntu-linux/


My sequence of instructions – may not work for you, of course!

**NB** I decided not to use the GTK toolkit and toolkit scroll bars. If you want them instead, remove "--with-x-toolkit=lucid --without-toolkit-scroll-bars" from the instructions below.

# download tarball from https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/
# save it in some directory, then open a terminal in that directory


$ sudo apt build-dep -y emacs # to install dependencies needed

$ gcc --version # to check CC version, called [VERSION] below

$ sudo apt install libgccjit0 libgccjit-[VERSION]-dev

$ sudo apt install libjansson4 libjansson-dev gnutls-bin

$ tar -xf emacs-29.1.tar.xz

$ cd emacs-29.1

$ ./autogen.sh

$ ./configure --with-native-compilation --with-json --enable-link-time-optimization --with-x-toolkit=lucid --without-toolkit-scroll-bars

$ make

$ ./src/emacs -Q # to check if it works properly

$ sudo make install




On 231007 14:13, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 at 06:52, Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean?
>>>
>>> I think that manaual building is not easy. Maybe there is a package
>>> for emacs 29.1 of Ubuntu?
>>
>> There’s this PPA that hosts the package backported from Debian Sid:
>>
>>      https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuhandbook1/+archive/ubuntu/emacs
> 
> Thanks Yuri, i'm also Ubuntu user as like Luca (OP).
> 
> Sincerely, Byung-Hee
> 

Re: Question on updating to 29.1

[Basile Starynkevitch]

On 10/7/23 01:51, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
>>> Like me, you do contact to Ubuntu team with Emacs update.
>> What do you mean?
> I think that manaual building is not easy. Maybe there is a package
> for emacs 29.1 of Ubuntu?


I am building the latest GNU emacs snapshot everyt day on my Ubuntu 
desktop using the following script. My /usr/src/Editors/emacs contain a 
git clone of GNU emacs. I did install the dependencies (they don't 
change often) e.g. with aptitude build-dep emacs

> #! /bin/bash -x
> export PATH=/usr/bin:/bin
> sync
> cd /usr/src/Editors/emacs
> rm -f etc/DOC*
> git  pull
> git  log -3 | cat
> sync
> rm -rf /tmp/emacsinst/
> time nice make -j  -l 9 || exit 1
> time make  install DESTDIR=/tmp/emacsinst || exit 1
> sudo cp -v -r -p /tmp/emacsinst/usr/local/. /usr/local/.
> sync&

-- 
Basile Starynkevitch
  <basile@starynkevitch.net>
(only mine opinions / les opinions sont miennes uniquement)
92340 Bourg-la-Reine, France
web page: starynkevitch.net/Basile/