Missing texinfo manual

Missing texinfo manual

[Aidan Gauland]

wisent.texi and bovine.texi contain references to the "grammar-fw"
manual -- line 1580 in wisent.texi, and line 85 in bovine.texi -- but it
is neither in trunk nor the (latest) Emacs release tarball.  The HTML
builds of the bovine and wisent manuals on gnu.org contain links to
grammar-fw which are broken:
e.g. <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/wisent.html>
has a link "Semantic Grammar Framework Manual" (in section 4) to
<https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/grammar-fw.html#Top>,
which returns a 404.

So where is grammar-fw.texi?  Did the GNU eat it?

--Aidan

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Glenn Morris]

Aidan Gauland wrote:

> wisent.texi and bovine.texi contain references to the "grammar-fw"
> manual -- line 1580 in wisent.texi, and line 85 in bovine.texi -- but it
> is neither in trunk nor the (latest) Emacs release tarball.

It's one of the (several?) CEDET manuals that has never been part of
Emacs. I can add it, if that is appropriate (David, Eric?).

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[David Engster]

Glenn Morris writes:
> Aidan Gauland wrote:
>
>> wisent.texi and bovine.texi contain references to the "grammar-fw"
>> manual -- line 1580 in wisent.texi, and line 85 in bovine.texi -- but it
>> is neither in trunk nor the (latest) Emacs release tarball.
>
> It's one of the (several?) CEDET manuals that has never been part of
> Emacs. I can add it, if that is appropriate (David, Eric?).

Not sure about that. I was never fond of the plethora of different info
files in CEDET. I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other
manuals, but I'm not sure where. Maybe in semantic.texi?

-David

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Glenn Morris]

David Engster wrote:

> I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other manuals, but I'm
> not sure where. Maybe in semantic.texi?

I agree that is a better idea. You would know better than I which file
is the best place to put it.

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Aidan Gauland]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> David Engster wrote:
>
>> I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other manuals, but I'm
>> not sure where. Maybe in semantic.texi?
>
> I agree that is a better idea. You would know better than I which file
> is the best place to put it.

In the meantime, where is the file upstream? cedet.sourceforge.net says
the latest version of CEDET is 1.1, but `cedet-version' in Emacs 24.3.1
reports 2.0.

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Glenn Morris]

Aidan Gauland wrote:

>>> I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other manuals, but I'm
[...]
> In the meantime, where is the file upstream?

I guess

http://cedet.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzr/cedet/code/trunk/files/head%3A/doc/texi/semantic/

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[David Engster]

Glenn Morris writes:
> Aidan Gauland wrote:
>
>>>> I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other manuals, but I'm
> [...]
>> In the meantime, where is the file upstream?
>
> I guess
>
> http://cedet.bzr.sourceforge.net/bzr/cedet/code/trunk/files/head%3A/doc/texi/semantic/

Yes. CEDET 2.0 is the version that ships with Emacs 24.3. There's no
separate release.

We're not actually sure if it makes sense to further release stand-alone
versions of CEDET. It would sure be nice to have them, but it's quite
some work and at least I think there are more important things to
do. People who don't want to upgrade their Emacs but still want an
up-to-date CEDET should simply use the version from bzr, which is
usually fairly stable.

Regarding merging the grammar-fw manual into the Semantic manual, I'd
like to hear Eric's opinion first, but he's currently busy.

-David

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Eric M. Ludlam]

On 06/11/2013 03:48 PM, David Engster wrote:
> Glenn Morris writes:
>> Aidan Gauland wrote:
>>
>>> wisent.texi and bovine.texi contain references to the "grammar-fw"
>>> manual -- line 1580 in wisent.texi, and line 85 in bovine.texi -- but it
>>> is neither in trunk nor the (latest) Emacs release tarball.
>>
>> It's one of the (several?) CEDET manuals that has never been part of
>> Emacs. I can add it, if that is appropriate (David, Eric?).
>
> Not sure about that. I was never fond of the plethora of different info
> files in CEDET. I'd rather integrate grammar-fw in one of the other
> manuals, but I'm not sure where. Maybe in semantic.texi?

Hi,

   A similar topic came up once before many years ago, and I had tried 
merging some of the Semantic manuals together.  If I remember, the 
subsubsection levels got too deep, and my lack of texi skills led me 
somewhere I wasn't sure how to fix.

   The grammar-fw.texi file goes best with bovine.texi and wisent.texi - 
the two grammar modes in Semantic, but merging those 3 doesn't seem 
quite right to me.  The semantic.texi manual refers to the other manuals 
and has the 'internals' - a description the different files that make up 
Semantic.   Since semantic-fw is about the tools used to write grammars 
more than the grammars themselves, I think that including it as a 
chapter in semantic.texi would be fine, and is similar in scope to 
'internals' which is also about where to find code in Semantic.

Unfortunately, I think the organic growth of those manuals has resulted 
in a strange high-level organization.  The simple change of @include-ing 
grammar-fw.texi into semantic.texi will continue that trend.  If anyone 
has thoughts on a better way to address what David points out as a 
"plethora of different info files", it can only make things better.

Thanks
Eric

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Glenn Morris]

In the meantime, is there any reason (copyright, etc) I should _not_
simply add the grammar-fw manual to Emacs? It's the easiest way to fix
the broken cross-refs that currently exist. We can merge whatever better
solution CEDET implements when you come up with it.

Re: Missing texinfo manual

[Glenn Morris]

There's also (at least) semantic-appdev and semantic-langdev.
And anything those might in turn link to.
That really is quite a lot of manuals...

However, for the gnu.org website I decided to simply redirect to the
online CEDET version of those docs. That fixes the immediate issue.