Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el (menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el (menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Stefan Monnier]

> -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
> +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"

FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el (menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 10:05:12 -0500
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
> > +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"
> FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.

Maybe it can be written into the "Tips and Conventions" section in elisp manual (if most people approve of it).

>         Stefan
-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el (menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
>> +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"
>
> FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.

Existing Emacs menus seems to have standardized on capitalizing, AFAICS.

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-11/msg00679.html

I thought this was written down somewhere, but cannot find it at the
moment.

RE: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Drew Adams]

> > > -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
> > > +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"
> > FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.
> 
> Maybe it can be written into the "Tips and Conventions" 
> section in elisp manual (if most people approve of it).

1. The most important things are (a) to be fairly consistent across a given
context (e.g. a mode or an application) and (b) to use the same capitalization
as found in the application, for any terms that serve more or less like proper
nouns there (e.g. the name of a buffer that serves as a menu item in menu
`Buffers', or an Imenu menu item).

2. Emacs Dev can decide what it wants, beyond that.  The two most common
capitalization conventions are (a) title case and (b) sentence case (sometimes
called downstyle).  Title case generally means capitalizing the important words
(plus the first), not all the words (sometimes called start case).

3. Historically, title case has tended to be used more in the US; sentence case
in Europe and the UK.  Dunno about other areas, and usage no doubt varies across
media and contexts.

4. #1b means that, barring some other typographical notation to set off such
proper terms, sentence case is advantageous when the proper term is itself
capitalized, and title case is advantageous when it is not.  IOW, what is odd
stands out.

5. "The less capitalized forms" is not very operational as guidance.  Presumably
what Stefan expresses is a preference for sentence case in menus, as opposed to
title case or to capitalizing every word.

6. Personally, I favor title case in menus (but again see #1: be consistent).  I
do so in part because it is overwhelmingly used in menus (to my knowledge), both
within Emacs and beyond, and in part because it leads your eye to terms that
more important, facilitating scanning.

7. Emacs generally sets off menu names using `...' in the manual (e.g., "Click
on `Set Default Font' in the `Options' menu", "click on the menu item named
`Source Code Parsers (Semantic)' in the `Tools' menu").

But sometimes it does not (bugs), and in those cases another advantage to title
case is that it can be easier to separate visually from the surrounding text.

8. I agree that whatever convention is decided on, it would be good to mention
it in the manual, as a guideline.  That helps people know what is generally
preferred.

Given the fact that Emacs already appears pretty consistent in this regard, I
thought that title case had already been chosen as our convention, but whatever
the choice is, it would be good to document it, as guidance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_case

RE: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Drew Adams]

> >> -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
> >> +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"
> >
> > FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.
> 
> Existing Emacs menus seems to have standardized on 
> capitalizing, AFAICS.
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-11/msg00679.html
> 
> I thought this was written down somewhere, but cannot find it at the
> moment.

That's what I thought too, but thanks for the reference.  Whether or not there
is a new decision about the convention to use, let's document it, as Fuqiao
suggested.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 11:20:45 -0800
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

> Emacs generally sets off menu names using `...' in the manual (e.g., "Click
> on `Set Default Font' in the `Options' menu", "click on the menu item named
> `Source Code Parsers (Semantic)' in the `Tools' menu").

But the menu item for Semantic doesn't have `...', and I don't think
that it should have `...'.

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Re: [Emacs-diffs] r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el (menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Stephen Berman]

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:09:05 -0500 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote:

> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
>>> -      '(menu-item "Project support (EDE)"
>>> +      '(menu-item "Project Support (EDE)"
>>
>> FWIW, I prefer the "less capitalized" forms.
>
> Existing Emacs menus seems to have standardized on capitalizing, AFAICS.

Most (but not all) Gnus menu items only have the first word capitalized.

Steve Berman

RE: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Drew Adams]

> > Emacs generally sets off menu names using `...' in the 
> > manual (e.g., "Click on `Set Default Font' in the
> > `Options' menu", "click on the menu item named
> > `Source Code Parsers (Semantic)' in the `Tools' menu").
> 
> But the menu item for Semantic doesn't have `...', and I don't think
> that it should have `...'.

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean.  In node `Semantic' of the Emacs manual the
text is exactly as I quoted it, at least in my version of Emacs (from 2013-02-15
trunk).  What "menu item for Semantic" are you referring to?

Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:39:16 -0800
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

> > > Emacs generally sets off menu names using `...' in the 
> > > manual (e.g., "Click on `Set Default Font' in the
> > > `Options' menu", "click on the menu item named
> > > `Source Code Parsers (Semantic)' in the `Tools' menu").
> > But the menu item for Semantic doesn't have `...', and I don't think
> > that it should have `...'.
> Sorry, I have no idea what you mean.  In node `Semantic' of the Emacs manual the
> text is exactly as I quoted it, at least in my version of Emacs (from 2013-02-15
> trunk).  What "menu item for Semantic" are you referring to?

I mean the `Set Default Font' has `...', but `Source Code Parsers (Semantic)' doesn't have `...'.

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

RE: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r111816: * lisp/menu-bar.el(menu-bar-tools-menu): Fix case of EDE entry.

[Drew Adams]

> I mean the `Set Default Font' has `...', but `Source Code 
> Parsers (Semantic)' doesn't have `...'.

I still don't understand the relevance to the topic, sorry.  If you are just
commenting on what the actual menu items are vs should be, that's irrelevant
here, but you might want to file a bug.

`...' is appropriate for a menu item if the command invoked requires further
user interaction (e.g. input).  If not, it is inappropriate.