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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: emacs-26: `with-eval-after-load' docstring omission
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:58:05 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvy3jeqi3d.fsf-monnier+gmane.emacs.devel@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 827ed6de-fd90-144e-53dd-50163a937b63@gmail.com

>> Isn't that an irrelevant implementation detail? I don't see why it
>> should be documented.
> It is relevant, because the behavior isn't the same as 'eval'-ing
> a quoted form.

Yes, the behavior would be different if we quoted the expression and
passed it to `eval`, but in both cases it's an internal implementation
detail, and the relevant difference is the resulting change in
the semantics.

> But I don't think the documentation should be fixed; instead, I think the
> behavior should be changed :)

I think you're blinded by your current problem.
Try and remember the world of Coq.  Think about equivalences like

    (defun FUN () EXP)
    (with-eval-after-load FILE (FUN))
    =
    (with-eval-after-load FILE EXP)

which are currently true (to the extent such things can be true in
Elisp where FUN can be redefined, of course) whereas

    (defun FUN () EXP)
    (eval-after-load FILE '(FUN))
    ≠
    (eval-after-load FILE 'EXP)

[ Well, of course, this equivalence is actually true as well given the
  current compiler-macro, but I'm assuming above that we undo this
  compiler macro.  ]

IOW, the behavior you seem to want is semantically a good bit more messy.

In your case, you do want the quote because you need to delay
macro-expansion, but I think it's cleaner to solve this problem by
*explicitly* using a quote, rather than by relying on the messy
semantics of the macro/function you happen to be using.

E.g. your exact same problem could show up if you used, say,

    (add-hook 'flycheck-mode-hook ...)

instead of

    (with-eval-after-load ...)

but you wouldn't ask for a change in add-hook to "solve" your problem.


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2018-02-27 20:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-02-23 13:42 emacs-26: `with-eval-after-load' docstring omission Vicente Vera
2018-02-23 14:16 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-02-24 14:42   ` Vicente Vera
2018-02-27 20:40   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-27 20:58     ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2018-02-28 14:53       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-28 23:22         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-03-17  6:01           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-03-17 14:19             ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-13 16:00               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-04-13 18:02                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-13 18:28                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-04-13 18:41                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-04-13 22:43                     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-27 20:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-03-03 15:06 ` Vicente Vera
2018-03-03 15:38   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-03-03 21:52   ` Stefan Monnier
2018-03-04 16:04   ` Vicente Vera
2018-03-05  3:39     ` Stefan Monnier
2018-03-09  1:00       ` Noam Postavsky
2018-03-09  4:55         ` Stefan Monnier
2018-03-09  0:47     ` Vicente Vera

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