Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Xue Fuqiao]

> revno: 115058
> branch nick: trunk
> timestamp: Sun 2013-11-10 23:50:56 -0500
> message:
>   * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark obsolete.
> modified:
>   etc/NEWS                       news-20100311060928-aoit31wvzf25yr1z-1
>   lisp/ChangeLog                 changelog-20091113204419-o5vbwnq5f7feedwu-1432
>   lisp/iswitchb.el
> iswitchb.el-20091113204419-o5vbwnq5f7feedwu-1173
> === modified file 'etc/NEWS'
> --- a/etc/NEWS  2013-11-05 07:44:14 +0000
> +++ b/etc/NEWS  2013-11-11 04:50:56 +0000
> @@ -587,6 +587,8 @@
>
>  ** Obsolete packages:
>
> +*** Iswitchb is made obsolete by icomplete-mode.
> +
>  *** longlines.el is obsolete; use visual-line-mode instead.
>
>  +++
>
> === modified file 'lisp/ChangeLog'
> --- a/lisp/ChangeLog    2013-11-11 00:58:13 +0000
> +++ b/lisp/ChangeLog    2013-11-11 04:50:56 +0000
> @@ -1,3 +1,7 @@
> +2013-11-11  Stefan Monnier  <address@hidden>
> +
> +       * iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark obsolete.
> +
>  2013-11-11  Glenn Morris  <address@hidden>
>
>         * international/uni-bidi.el, international/uni-category.el:
>
> === modified file 'lisp/iswitchb.el'
> --- a/lisp/iswitchb.el  2013-03-30 16:55:47 +0000
> +++ b/lisp/iswitchb.el  2013-11-11 04:50:56 +0000
> @@ -1427,6 +1427,8 @@
>        (add-hook 'minibuffer-setup-hook 'iswitchb-minibuffer-setup)
>      (remove-hook 'minibuffer-setup-hook 'iswitchb-minibuffer-setup)))
>
> +(make-obsolete 'iswitchb-mode 'icomplete-mode "24.4")
> +
>  (provide 'iswitchb)
>
>  ;;; iswitchb.el ends here

Maybe we should also:

* Remove iswitchb in doc/emacs/{buffers, ack, emacs}.texi
* move iswitchb.el to lisp/obsolete/
* Add a `;; Obsolete-since: 24.4' header

IMHO only marking `iswitchb-mode' obsolete isn't enough.  People seldom
use other iswitchb-* functions/variables, so we can obsolete the entire
library.

-- 
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Stefan Monnier]

> * Remove iswitchb in doc/emacs/{buffers, ack, emacs}.texi

..and replace it with icomplete-mode, indeed, yes.

> * move iswitchb.el to lisp/obsolete/
> * Add a `;; Obsolete-since: 24.4' header

I'm OK with that.  But packages in `obsolete' aren't autoloaded (they
aren't scanned for ;;;###autoload cookies), and AFAIK many users use
iswitchb-mode in their .emacs, so please add an explicit autoload of
iswtchb-mode, then (and make sure the autoload's docstring says that
it's obsolete).


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Xue Fuqiao]

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On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> * Remove iswitchb in doc/emacs/{buffers, ack, emacs}.texi
>
> ..and replace it with icomplete-mode, indeed, yes.

icomplete-mode is already documented (although it's brief).

>> * move iswitchb.el to lisp/obsolete/
>> * Add a `;; Obsolete-since: 24.4' header
>
> I'm OK with that.  But packages in `obsolete' aren't autoloaded (they
> aren't scanned for ;;;###autoload cookies), and AFAIK many users use
> iswitchb-mode in their .emacs, so please add an explicit autoload of
> iswtchb-mode, then (and make sure the autoload's docstring says that
> it's obsolete).

OK, what about the following patch?

-- 
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

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=== modified file 'doc/emacs/ChangeLog'
--- doc/emacs/ChangeLog	2013-11-04 01:36:14 +0000
+++ doc/emacs/ChangeLog	2013-11-16 22:40:35 +0000
@@ -1,3 +1,9 @@
+2013-11-16  Xue Fuqiao  <xfq.free@gmail.com>
+
+	* buffers.texi (Buffer Convenience):
+	* emacs.texi (Top):
+	* ack.texi (Acknowledgments): Don't mention iswitchb any more.
+
 2013-11-04  Glenn Morris  <rgm@gnu.org>
 
 	* cmdargs.texi (Action Arguments): Mention that `-L :...' appends.

=== modified file 'doc/emacs/ack.texi'
--- doc/emacs/ack.texi	2013-10-13 23:01:20 +0000
+++ doc/emacs/ack.texi	2013-11-16 22:40:35 +0000
@@ -303,8 +303,7 @@
 
 @item
 Stephen Eglen wrote @file{mspools.el}, which tells you which Procmail
-folders have mail waiting in them; and @file{iswitchb.el}, a feature
-for incremental reading and completion of buffer names.
+folders have mail waiting in them.
 
 @item
 Torbjörn Einarsson wrote @file{f90.el}, a mode for Fortran 90 files.

=== modified file 'doc/emacs/buffers.texi'
--- doc/emacs/buffers.texi	2013-01-01 09:11:05 +0000
+++ doc/emacs/buffers.texi	2013-11-16 22:40:35 +0000
@@ -598,7 +598,6 @@
 
 @menu
 * Uniquify::               Making buffer names unique with directory parts.
-* Iswitchb::               Switching between buffers with substrings.
 * Buffer Menus::           Configurable buffer menu.
 @end menu
 
@@ -641,41 +640,6 @@
 know the rule, you won't have to look.  And then you may find that one
 rule or another is easier for you to remember and apply quickly.
 
-@node Iswitchb
-@subsection Switching Between Buffers using Substrings
-
-@findex iswitchb-mode
-@cindex Iswitchb mode
-@cindex mode, Iswitchb
-@kindex C-x b @r{(Iswitchb mode)}
-@kindex C-x 4 b @r{(Iswitchb mode)}
-@kindex C-x 5 b @r{(Iswitchb mode)}
-@kindex C-x 4 C-o @r{(Iswitchb mode)}
-
-  Iswitchb global minor mode provides convenient switching between
-buffers using substrings of their names.  It replaces the normal
-definitions of @kbd{C-x b}, @kbd{C-x 4 b}, @kbd{C-x 5 b}, and @kbd{C-x
-4 C-o} with alternative commands that are somewhat ``smarter''.
-
-  When one of these commands prompts you for a buffer name, you can
-type in just a substring of the name you want to choose.  As you enter
-the substring, Iswitchb mode continuously displays a list of buffers
-that match the substring you have typed.
-
-  At any time, you can type @key{RET} to select the first buffer in
-the list.  So the way to select a particular buffer is to make it the
-first in the list.  There are two ways to do this.  You can type more
-of the buffer name and thus narrow down the list, excluding unwanted
-buffers above the desired one.  Alternatively, you can use @kbd{C-s}
-and @kbd{C-r} to rotate the list until the desired buffer is first.
-
-  @key{TAB} while entering the buffer name performs completion on the
-string you have entered, based on the displayed list of buffers.
-
-  To enable Iswitchb mode, type @kbd{M-x iswitchb-mode}, or customize
-the variable @code{iswitchb-mode} to @code{t} (@pxref{Easy
-Customization}).
-
 @node Buffer Menus
 @subsection Customizing Buffer Menus
 

=== modified file 'doc/emacs/emacs.texi'
--- doc/emacs/emacs.texi	2013-10-13 00:31:19 +0000
+++ doc/emacs/emacs.texi	2013-11-16 22:40:35 +0000
@@ -501,7 +501,6 @@
 Convenience Features and Customization of Buffer Handling
 
 * Uniquify::            Making buffer names unique with directory parts.
-* Iswitchb::            Switching between buffers with substrings.
 * Buffer Menus::        Configurable buffer menu.
 
 Multiple Windows

=== modified file 'lisp/ChangeLog'
--- lisp/ChangeLog	2013-11-16 11:37:45 +0000
+++ lisp/ChangeLog	2013-11-16 22:43:44 +0000
@@ -1,3 +1,7 @@
+2013-11-16  Xue Fuqiao  <xfq.free@gmail.com>
+
+	* iswitchb.el: Move to obsolete/.
+
 2013-11-16  Michael Albinus  <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
 
 	* net/tramp-cmds.el (tramp-cleanup-connection): Clean up

=== renamed file 'lisp/iswitchb.el' => 'lisp/obsolete/iswitchb.el'
--- lisp/iswitchb.el	2013-11-11 04:50:56 +0000
+++ lisp/obsolete/iswitchb.el	2013-11-16 22:58:50 +0000
@@ -5,6 +5,7 @@
 ;; Author: Stephen Eglen <stephen@gnu.org>
 ;; Maintainer: Stephen Eglen <stephen@gnu.org>
 ;; Keywords: completion convenience
+;; Obsolete-since: 24.4
 
 ;; This file is part of GNU Emacs.
 
@@ -23,6 +24,9 @@
 
 ;;; Commentary:
 
+;; This file is obsolete.  For similar functionality, see
+;; icomplete.el.
+
 ;; Installation:
 ;; To get the functions in this package bound to keys, use
 ;; M-x iswitchb-mode or customize the option `iswitchb-mode'.
@@ -243,6 +247,17 @@
 
 (require 'font-lock)
 
+(autoload 'iswitchb-mode "iswitchb-mode"
+  "This function is obsolete since 24.4; use `icomplete-mode' instead.
+
+Toggle Iswitchb mode.
+With a prefix argument ARG, enable Iswitchb mode if ARG is
+positive, and disable it otherwise.  If called from Lisp, enable
+the mode if ARG is omitted or nil.
+
+Iswitchb mode is a global minor mode that enables switching
+between buffers using substrings.  See `iswitchb' for details.")
+
 ;;; User Variables
 ;;
 ;; These are some things you might want to change.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Josh]

On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> * Remove iswitchb in doc/emacs/{buffers, ack, emacs}.texi
>
> ..and replace it with icomplete-mode, indeed, yes.

Did I miss a discussion somewhere about obsoleting iswitchb and
replacing it with icomplete?  The obsolescence itself is a little
surprising to me, as I personally know of a few people who prefer it
to more featureful alternatives, but far more surprising to me is the
designation of icomplete as its successor instead of ido.  It's my
impression that ido is _far_ more widely used than icomplete.  That
impression is based on how very frequently ido is recommended or
inquired about on #emacs, in stark contrast to icomplete, which is
recommended or inquired about there approximately never.  The
last mention of icomplete in my logs (which do have some holes)
was on August 23, nearly three months ago; the last mention of
ido was yesterday.

Josh

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Stefan Monnier]

> OK, what about the following patch?

Looks OK, except for the autoload which can't work.


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Stefan Monnier]

> Did I miss a discussion somewhere about obsoleting iswitchb and
> replacing it with icomplete?

It's a simple fact that since the default C-x b now does substring
completion by default (since 24.3, IIRC), and since icomplete-mode
now provides the few extra commands to "rotate" the list of completions,
it now makes iswitchb-mode obsolete, AFAIK.

> The obsolescence itself is a little surprising to me, as I personally
> know of a few people who prefer it to more featureful alternatives,
> but far more surprising to me is the designation of icomplete as its
> successor instead of ido.  It's my impression that ido is _far_ more
> widely used than icomplete.

icomplete-mode does not make ido-mode obsolete, indeed, far from it.
And if people want to use it, ido-mode is just as available as before.


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Josh]

On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>> The obsolescence itself is a little surprising to me, as I personally
>> know of a few people who prefer it to more featureful alternatives,
>> but far more surprising to me is the designation of icomplete as its
>> successor instead of ido.  It's my impression that ido is _far_ more
>> widely used than icomplete.
>
> icomplete-mode does not make ido-mode obsolete, indeed, far from it.
> And if people want to use it, ido-mode is just as available as before.

You misunderstood.  It is iswitchb's obsolescence that surprises me,
and iswitchb that those few people I mentioned prefer.  Leaving that
aside, if iswitchb is to be obsoleted then ido seems like a far more
sensible successor because people seem to prefer it to icomplete by
a wide margin.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> OK, what about the following patch?
>
> Looks OK, except for the autoload which can't work.

Thanks.  Why can't the autoload work?  It's in the wrong place?

-- 
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Jambunathan K]

Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> icomplete-mode is already documented (although it's brief).

Creating a separate node for icomplete-mode will give it more exposure
and testing.

+1 for obsoleting iswitchb.

I hope, some day, parts of ido-mode get sucked in to the completion
infrastructure as well.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Stefan Monnier]

> You misunderstood.  It is iswitchb's obsolescence that surprises me,
> and iswitchb that those few people I mentioned prefer.

Then, please make a bug-report explaining why they prefer iswitchb-mode
over icomplete-mode.  The two are not 100% identical, but it should be
possible to configure icomplete-mode's behavior to be pretty close to
iswitchb-mode.


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Josh]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> You misunderstood.  It is iswitchb's obsolescence that surprises me,
>> and iswitchb that those few people I mentioned prefer.
>
> Then, please make a bug-report explaining why they prefer iswitchb-mode
> over icomplete-mode.  The two are not 100% identical, but it should be
> possible to configure icomplete-mode's behavior to be pretty close to
> iswitchb-mode.

They can do it themselves if they are so moved.  As I hope I've made
clear by now, my main concern is the question of whether iswitchb's
successor ought to be icomplete or ido.  I have put forward an
argument that it should be ido based on the fact that it appears to
be far and away what users prefer, and by going this route we would
maximize the number of users who were satisfied with the default
completion mechanism.  With my argument I offered evidence, and I
believe and hope that one of the many here who also frequent #emacs
and keep their own logs would swiftly correct me if I have misstated
the reality.  If I have not, is there some countervailing argument
or evidence you believe tips the scale in favor of annointing
icomplete, or are you just asserting maintainer's privilege because
you personally prefer icomplete?

Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115058: * lisp/iswitchb.el (iswitchb-mode): Mark ob

[Stefan Monnier]

> They can do it themselves if they are so moved.  As I hope I've made
> clear by now, my main concern is the question of whether iswitchb's
> successor ought to be icomplete or ido.

We can't tell iswitchb users that ido makes iswitchb obsolete, since ido
does a lot more and maybe they don't want all that extra functionality
(and I'm not sure to what extend ido can be configured to behave like
iswitchb does).
I assume that if they're still using iswitchb by now, it's because they
indeed don't want ido.


        Stefan