Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Stefan Monnier]

Hi Feng Shu,

I just noticed that the pyim package releases were not being built, and
I see it's because of the copyright check:

    % make check/pyim
    emacs --batch -l .../elpa/admin/elpa-admin.el       \
             -f elpaa-batch-copyright-check pyim
    Problem with copyright notices:
    Missing copyright notice in pyim/tests/pyim-tests.el
    Missing copyright notice in pyim/.dir-local.el
    %

The two problems are:

- There's no "copyright FSF" line in `tests/pyim-tests.el`.
- An `s` is missing in the name of your `.dir-locals.el` file.

If you can fix that and then make a 3.2 release it should finally get
a tarball in the GNU ELPA archive.


        Stefan

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-24 12:41:38, "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>Hi Feng Shu,
>
>I just noticed that the pyim package releases were not being built, and
>I see it's because of the copyright check:
>
>    % make check/pyim
>    emacs --batch -l .../elpa/admin/elpa-admin.el       \
>             -f elpaa-batch-copyright-check pyim
>    Problem with copyright notices:
>    Missing copyright notice in pyim/tests/pyim-tests.el
>    Missing copyright notice in pyim/.dir-local.el
>    %
>
>The two problems are:
>
>- There's no "copyright FSF" line in `tests/pyim-tests.el`.
>- An `s` is missing in the name of your `.dir-locals.el` file.
>
>If you can fix that and then make a 3.2 release it should finally get
>a tarball in the GNU ELPA archive.
>
>
>        Stefan

Should be fixed, thanks!

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Stefan Monnier]

> Should be fixed, thanks!

Indeed: https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/pyim.html


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 08:52:52 -0500
> Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> > Should be fixed, thanks!
> 
> Indeed: https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/pyim.html

I thought we agreed to have this in emacs.git.

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-25 00:41:08, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
>> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 08:52:52 -0500
>> Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> 
>> > Should be fixed, thanks!
>> 
>> Indeed: https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/pyim.html
>
>I thought we agreed to have this in emacs.git.

I have no objection, but I do not familar emacs.git,  so I do not know how to do.

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:25:53 +0800 (CST)
> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> >I thought we agreed to have this in emacs.git.
> 
> I have no objection, but I do not familar emacs.git,  so I do not know how to do.

We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
out the addition.

Which files need to be added for this input method to be available to
Emacs users?

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Stefan Monnier]

> We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
> out the addition.

That's the easy part.  The trouble comes when changes are made to those
files and hence questions come up about applying those changes to the
emacs.git and to the other places where the code is kept.

So we first need/want to decide where is the "upstream".


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: tumashu <tumashu@163.com>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:30:48 -0500
> 
> > We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
> > out the addition.
> 
> That's the easy part.  The trouble comes when changes are made to those
> files and hence questions come up about applying those changes to the
> emacs.git and to the other places where the code is kept.
> 
> So we first need/want to decide where is the "upstream".

I thought we decided to have it only in Emacs, which then makes the
question of upstream a moot one.

Why does an input method have to be on ELPA? do we expect frequent
updates of the dictionary or something?  Then perhaps only the
dictionary should be on ELPA (or maybe even not that).

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Stefan Monnier]

>> > We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
>> > out the addition.
>> 
>> That's the easy part.  The trouble comes when changes are made to those
>> files and hence questions come up about applying those changes to the
>> emacs.git and to the other places where the code is kept.
>> 
>> So we first need/want to decide where is the "upstream".
>
> I thought we decided to have it only in Emacs,

I haven't heard such a decision from pyim's maintainer.

> Why does an input method have to be on ELPA?

For those Emacsen which don't have it yet?


        Stefan

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: tumashu@163.com,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:35:44 -0500
> 
> > Why does an input method have to be on ELPA?
> 
> For those Emacsen which don't have it yet?

They can download it from its upstream repository, no?

And it's a one-time problem, anyway, it will vanish once Emacs 28 is
released.

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-25 22:25:54, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:25:53 +0800 (CST)
>> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
>> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
>> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> 
>> >I thought we agreed to have this in emacs.git.
>> 
>> I have no objection, but I do not familar emacs.git,  so I do not know how to do.
>
>We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
>out the addition.
>
>Which files need to be added for this input method to be available to
>Emacs users?

pyim-common.el       (need)
pyim-dhashcache.el   (need)
pyim-dregcache.el    (need)
pyim.el              (need)
pyim-probe.el        (need)
pyim-pymap.el        (need)
.dir-locals.el       the setting in this file is need,  maybe have other approach.
-------------------------------------------------
README.md            README for github and elpa
snapshots            pyim usage screenshot.
Makefile             used by travis
tests                test case
.travis.yml          run test case with the help of travis

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-25 22:25:54, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:25:53 +0800 (CST)
>> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
>> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
>> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> 
>> >I thought we agreed to have this in emacs.git.
>> 
>> I have no objection, but I do not familar emacs.git,  so I do not know how to do.
>
>We just add the files to the Emacs repository and update NEWS to call
>out the addition.
>
>Which files need to be added for this input method to be available to
>Emacs users?

I think we have other problem to put pyim to emacs.git.
1. pyim require xr and rx, and  xr is a GNU elpa package, 
2. pyim support liberime, which is a melpa package.

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:26:09 +0800 (CST)
> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> I think we have other problem to put pyim to emacs.git.
> 1. pyim require xr and rx, and  xr is a GNU elpa package, 
> 2. pyim support liberime, which is a melpa package.

That's unfortunate.  Can these dependencies be removed in some way?

Also, are these dependencies needed always, or just for some features
of the pyim input method.  IOW, if the user only wants to use the
input method, i.e. type "C-u C-\ pyim RET" and type the characters,
does such a user need these dependencies?  If not, perhaps the
dependencies could be made optional if not removed.

And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
them do it.

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-26 15:43:21, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 13:26:09 +0800 (CST)
>> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
>> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
>> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> 
>> I think we have other problem to put pyim to emacs.git.
>> 1. pyim require xr and rx, and  xr is a GNU elpa package, 
>> 2. pyim support liberime, which is a melpa package.
>
>That's unfortunate.  Can these dependencies be removed in some way?
>
>Also, are these dependencies needed always, or just for some features

pyim core depend async, which is a GNU elpa package, and 
hard remove this depend.

a very useful feature (use pinyin search Chinese ) require xr

as liberime, pyim can work well with rime input method with the help of liberime. 

>of the pyim input method.  IOW, if the user only wants to use the
>input method, i.e. type "C-u C-\ pyim RET" and type the characters,
>does such a user need these dependencies?  If not, perhaps the
>dependencies could be made optional if not removed.

for the emacs-async reason, maybe pyim can not move to emacs.git,
maybe Gnu elpa is better place.

>
>And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
>not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
>them do it.

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:54:02 +0800 (CST)
> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> pyim core depend async, which is a GNU elpa package, and 
> hard remove this depend.

I see.

> for the emacs-async reason, maybe pyim can not move to emacs.git,
> maybe Gnu elpa is better place.

I guess so.  Too bad.

> >And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
> >not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
> >them do it.

This part is a problem even if pyim is only on ELPA.

Thanks.

Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-27 18:13:35, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:54:02 +0800 (CST)
>> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
>> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
>> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>> 
>> pyim core depend async, which is a GNU elpa package, and 
>> hard remove this depend.
>
>I see.
>
>> for the emacs-async reason, maybe pyim can not move to emacs.git,
>> maybe Gnu elpa is better place.
>
>I guess so.  Too bad.

maybe we should wait a sync package into emacs.git :-)

>
>> >And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
>> >not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
>> >them do it.
>
>This part is a problem even if pyim is only on ELPA.

This is not a big issue, without a Melpa package "pyim-basedict",  pyim can work properly,
pyim-basedict just let pyim more powful. 

as for pyim-basedict, it deriver from  libpinyin, libpinyin license is Apache 2.0

I do not know hao to deal with it,   put pyim-basedict to NonGNU elpa ?

>
>Thanks.

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 18:41:07 +0800 (CST)
> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> >> for the emacs-async reason, maybe pyim can not move to emacs.git,
> >> maybe Gnu elpa is better place.
> >
> >I guess so.  Too bad.
> 
> maybe we should wait a sync package into emacs.git :-)

I think there was talk about doing that.  I don't know what is the
status of that.  John, any comments?

> >> >And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
> >> >not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
> >> >them do it.
> >
> >This part is a problem even if pyim is only on ELPA.
> 
> This is not a big issue, without a Melpa package "pyim-basedict",  pyim can work properly,
> pyim-basedict just let pyim more powful. 
> 
> as for pyim-basedict, it deriver from  libpinyin, libpinyin license is Apache 2.0
> 
> I do not know hao to deal with it,   put pyim-basedict to NonGNU elpa ?

Yes, having that in non-GNU ELPA would be a good step.

Re:Re:Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[tumashu]

At 2021-02-27 18:41:07, "tumashu" <tumashu@163.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 2021-02-27 18:13:35, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 16:54:02 +0800 (CST)
>>> From: tumashu  <tumashu@163.com>
>>> Cc: "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 
>>> 	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>>> 
>>> pyim core depend async, which is a GNU elpa package, and 
>>> hard remove this depend.
>>
>>I see.
>>
>>> for the emacs-async reason, maybe pyim can not move to emacs.git,
>>> maybe Gnu elpa is better place.
>>
>>I guess so.  Too bad.
>
>maybe we should wait a sync package into emacs.git :-)
>
>>
>>> >And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
>>> >not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
>>> >them do it.
>>
>>This part is a problem even if pyim is only on ELPA.
>
>This is not a big issue, without a Melpa package "pyim-basedict",  pyim can work properly,
>pyim-basedict just let pyim more powful. 
>
>as for pyim-basedict, it deriver from  libpinyin, libpinyin license is Apache 2.0

Sorry, libpinyin licese is GPL-3 
https://github.com/libpinyin/libpinyin

If libpinyin license is GPL-3,  can I copy its dict to pyim-basedict and put pyim-basedict 
to GNU elpa?

>
>I do not know hao to deal with it,   put pyim-basedict to NonGNU elpa ?
>
>>
>>Thanks.

Re: [elpa] externals/pyim 1e14e7c: V3.1

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I think we have other problem to put pyim to emacs.git.
>> 1. pyim require xr and rx, and  xr is a GNU elpa package, 
>> 2. pyim support liberime, which is a melpa package.
> That's unfortunate.  Can these dependencies be removed in some way?
> Also, are these dependencies needed always, or just for some features
> of the pyim input method.  IOW, if the user only wants to use the
> input method, i.e. type "C-u C-\ pyim RET" and type the characters,
> does such a user need these dependencies?  If not, perhaps the
> dependencies could be made optional if not removed.

[ I don't know the answers, but indeed, input-methods are typically
  "leaf packages" which tend to depend on others more than others tend
  to depend on them, so from that point of view they're not the best
  candidates for inclusion into Emacs's core.  ]

> And I think the dependency on MELPA is the most worrisome, as we try
> not to encourage users to install packages from there, let alone force
> them do it.

This is not a dependency: `pyim` provides some code so it interacts well
with `liberime` but it does not require `liberime` at all.
It's definitely fine for GNU ELPA from that point of view, and I don't
see why that should be a problem for inclusion into core either.


        Stefan