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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>,
	gregory@heytings.org, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 16:56:44 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YCQQTKTbubBf+0Gd@ACM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83r1lohqoc.fsf@gnu.org>

Hello, Eli.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 17:45:55 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
> > Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 10:12:20 -0500
> > Cc: gregory@heytings.org, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org

> > Sorry, I atleast have a hard time taking these suggestion to remap
> > long standing keybindings randomly seriously, likewise suggestions
> > that users should just resort to M-x or binding them themselves.

> Can you explain why you are so worried about Emacs changing the
> default key bindings?  Given that it takes one line in your .emacs to
> restore any binding you care for, why argue so much about the
> defaults?

> This question also goes to everyone else in this long dispute who
> wants their precious key bindings preserved: why is such a long
> discussion needed when it is so easy to restore, in your init file, a
> binding you want preserved?

Because we care about other people, in particular newbies.  The bindings
people are suggesting suppressing are all basic editing commands.  If
their bindings are taken from them, then they become inaccessible, und
unknowable, to all but a few old hands.  Newbies should also be able to
discover and use back-to-indentation, open-line, and so forth.

Another reason is that if somebody rebinds a much used basic command back
to its traditional key sequence, that blocks out all the potentially
useful commands which other people now feel free to bind to that key
sequence.

I also don't see that the case has been made for freeing up vast numbers
of key bindings for external packages.  If I've understood correctly,
these key sequences are wanted for things like
`switch-on-foo-minor-mode', where the reserved minor mode bindings are
not yet available.  It seems to me that these commands are precisely what
C-c <letter> key sequences are intended for.  Each user will have her own
set of minor modes she uses, that set will typically be small, so setting
her own set of bindings is reasonable to expect.  Beyond the basic
facilities, we shouldn't be trying to set up a universal set of bindings
for everybody.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).



  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-02-10 16:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 153+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-09 12:30 Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 15:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-10 14:51   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10  8:44 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-10 13:57   ` Tassilo Horn
2021-02-10 14:54   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 15:12     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-10 15:45       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-10 16:47         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-10 17:19           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-10 19:17           ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-10 16:56         ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2021-02-10 17:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-10 18:02             ` andrés ramírez
2021-02-10 17:58           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11  5:27           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 19:10         ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-10 19:16           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11  2:50             ` Smarter M-x that filters on major-mode Stefan Kangas
2021-02-11  3:44               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-11  5:02                 ` Yuan Fu
2021-02-11  6:15                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11  6:11                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-11  8:58                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 11:00                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 13:46                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 14:16                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 15:04                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 16:05                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-11 16:13                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 16:14                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 19:09                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-11 19:52                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 20:39                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-11 21:08                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 22:22                                     ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-02-12  9:32                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 16:18                                         ` jao
2021-02-12 17:05                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-12 17:58                                             ` jao
2021-02-12 17:36                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12 17:57                                             ` jao
2021-02-12 18:12                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-12 18:16                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12 23:58                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-13  0:14                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-13  0:47                                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-13  2:26                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-13  3:18                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-13 11:33                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-13 11:28                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-13 11:30                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14  2:40                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14  4:30                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-14 23:30                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:36                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-14 13:30                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 14:20                                                   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-14 14:23                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 14:32                                                       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-14 14:45                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15 18:16                                                           ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-14 15:00                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 15:03                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-14 16:11                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 16:49                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-14 23:33                                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-15 15:15                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-16 17:07                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-14 16:57                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-14 17:10                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 17:59                                                               ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-14 18:02                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 18:44                                                                   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-14 18:53                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 19:01                                                                       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-15  2:59                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-15  5:25                                                                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-15 12:34                                                                           ` Eric S Fraga
2021-02-14 16:15                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-14 16:55                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-14 17:43                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-14 18:00                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 23:30                                                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-14 23:30                                                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-15  2:49                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-15  3:09                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-14 15:20                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-13 11:22                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 17:37                                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-13 11:48                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 14:38                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-11 15:29                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 17:29                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 17:43                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 18:57                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 21:12                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11 23:21                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12  8:59                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 13:39                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-13 11:43                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12  9:59                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 10:29                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 10:47                         ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-12 11:19                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 13:40                             ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-13 11:44                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-11  8:40               ` tomas
2021-02-11 15:56                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11 19:03                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-11 20:05                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 20:11                     ` tomas
2021-02-11 20:12                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12  7:06                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11  8:53               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-12 16:39               ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-12 17:20                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-12 17:56                   ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-11  4:55           ` Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Yuri Khan
2021-02-11  5:15             ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-11  6:29               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11 14:02             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 15:46               ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-11 16:08               ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-11 16:58                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 17:28                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11 19:03                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 19:31                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-11 17:53                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-11 18:06                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-11 19:26                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 20:32                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-11 20:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12  4:38                           ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-12  7:18                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 18:07                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-11 19:39                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11  5:15         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11 14:04           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 18:55             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11 19:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-11 20:20                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11 20:38                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-10 15:14   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-10 14:50 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 16:37   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-10 17:19     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-10 17:55     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-02-10 18:29       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-11  5:07     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11  6:18       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  6:54         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 17:35           ` Drew Adams

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