Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Kai Großjohann]

>From time to time, I see that people are having problems to compile
Emacs under GNU/Linux, because many distributions don't install the
development packages by default.

What do people think about a hint such as the following in INSTALL?

--- INSTALL.~1.94.~	Sat Feb 15 12:07:09 2003
+++ INSTALL	Mon Apr 28 07:10:57 2003
@@ -172,6 +172,13 @@
 Unicode characters are available from <URL:ftp://ftp.x.org/contrib/fonts/>
 and <URL:ftp://ftp.xfree86.org/pub/X.Org/contrib/fonts/>.
 
+* GNU/Linux development packages
+
+Many GNU/Linux systems do not come with development packages by
+default; they just include the files that you need to run Emacs, but
+not those you need to compile it.  For example, to compile Emacs with
+X11 support, you may need to install the special `X11 development'
+package.
 
 
 DETAILED BUILDING AND INSTALLATION:


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Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <kai.grossjohann@gmx.net> writes:

    Kai> From time to time, I see that people are having problems to
    Kai> compile Emacs under GNU/Linux, because many distributions
    Kai> don't install the development packages by default.

    Kai> What do people think about a hint such as the following in
    Kai> INSTALL?

XEmacs has had a similar entry in PROBLEMS for over a year, and it
since then the frequency of such questions has dropped noticably.  On
that basis I recommend it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** I know I have libfoo installed, but configure doesn't find it.

Typical of Linux systems with package managers.  To link with a shared
library, you only need the shared library.  To compile objects that
link with it, you need the headers---and distros don't provide them with
the libraries.  You need the additional "development" package, too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's my original text, and already copyright FSF per my assign.future
for XEmacs.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Richard Stallman]

    +Many GNU/Linux systems do not come with development packages by
    +default; they just include the files that you need to run Emacs, but
    +not those you need to compile it.  For example, to compile Emacs with
    +X11 support, you may need to install the special `X11 development'
    +package.

The general idea is good, but I think that "X11 development package"
is too vague.  It would be good to list the names it has in Debian and
Red Hat.  And likewise for a couple of other specific packages one
may need.

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Andreas Davour]

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:

>     +Many GNU/Linux systems do not come with development packages by
>     +default; they just include the files that you need to run Emacs, but
>     +not those you need to compile it.  For example, to compile Emacs with
>     +X11 support, you may need to install the special `X11 development'
>     +package.
> 
> The general idea is good, but I think that "X11 development package"
> is too vague.  It would be good to list the names it has in Debian and
> Red Hat.  And likewise for a couple of other specific packages one
> may need.

Maybe it's best to just note that the header files are needed. If we start
mentioning Debian/RedHat package names they'll probably change names next
week. Or is it more than the header files that are needed? Is it at all
possible to be helpful with such a message without risking to omit some
library or other? I don't say I don't like the idea, but it could be quite
hairy to write something that don't mislead.

/andreas

=================== Emacs =====================
			mail: ante@update.uu.se
		  	or try: Koraq@yahoo.com
groove out at: http://www.update.uu.se/~ante/
====== The choice of a GNU generation! ========

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Robert J. Chassell]

   > The general idea is good, but I think that "X11 development package"
   > is too vague.  It would be good to list the names it has in Debian and
   > Red Hat.  And likewise for a couple of other specific packages one
   > may need.

   Maybe it's best to just note that the header files are needed. If we start
   mentioning Debian/RedHat package names they'll probably change names next
   week. ....

It is better to list the names.  The names do change, but not
frequently.  Even obsolete names are better than none.

The reason is that I did not know that the Red Hat or Debian dev
packages have the requisite files in them.  If you said `you need the
header files' I would have thought that I needed to download complete
source packages.  That is what I have done in the past.  Since I have
a slow connection, this has taken me considerable time.

If you just say that Red Hat and Debian dev packages have the
necessary files in them, then I have to figure out their names.  That
takes time, too.  Better to list them.  Then, even if a name has
changed from, for example, libxaw6-dev to libxaw7-dev, I can readily
figure out what I need.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Richard Stallman]

    Maybe it's best to just note that the header files are needed. If we start
    mentioning Debian/RedHat package names they'll probably change names next
    week.

Don't worry about that.  We can say that these were the names as of
such and such a month.  It is better to give names that may have changed
than not give them at all.

	  Or is it more than the header files that are needed?

It is not just headers.  Often the linkable versions of the shared
libraries are in separate packages.

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Kai Großjohann]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> The general idea is good, but I think that "X11 development package"
> is too vague.  It would be good to list the names it has in Debian and
> Red Hat.  And likewise for a couple of other specific packages one
> may need.

I've now mentioned the name of the Debian package.  I don't have/know
Redhat and SuSE, so I can't say about those.  Anyone?
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Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Glenn Morris]

Kai Großjohann wrote:

> I've now mentioned the name of the Debian package. I don't have/know
> Redhat and SuSE, so I can't say about those. Anyone?

For Red Hat 7,8,9: XFree86-devel and Xaw3d-devel.

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Kai Großjohann]

Glenn Morris <gmorris+mail@ast.cam.ac.uk> writes:

> Kai Großjohann wrote:
>
>> I've now mentioned the name of the Debian package. I don't have/know
>> Redhat and SuSE, so I can't say about those. Anyone?
>
> For Red Hat 7,8,9: XFree86-devel and Xaw3d-devel.

Thanks, committed.

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Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Richard Stallman]

    I've now mentioned the name of the Debian package.  I don't have/know
    Redhat and SuSE, so I can't say about those.

Let's not bother with SuSE.  They develop non-free software,
so let's not give them support.

But let's support Mandrake.  (It may be the same as Red Hat.)

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Andreas Davour]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:

>     Maybe it's best to just note that the header files are needed. If we start
>     mentioning Debian/RedHat package names they'll probably change names next
>     week.
> 
> Don't worry about that.  We can say that these were the names as of
> such and such a month.  It is better to give names that may have changed
> than not give them at all.

Ok, with such a date mentioned it feels a lot more fair. Obsolete
information can create more problem that it helps, but that way it at
least has a time frame when it's correct.

> 	  Or is it more than the header files that are needed?
> 
> It is not just headers.  Often the linkable versions of the shared
> libraries are in separate packages.

Ok. Then packages might a better idea than mentioning specific
files. Even though one or two components might fall in between anyway. 

/andreas

=================== Emacs =====================
			mail: ante@update.uu.se
		  	or try: Koraq@yahoo.com
groove out at: http://www.update.uu.se/~ante/
====== The choice of a GNU generation! ========

Re: Development package hint in INSTALL for GNU/Linux?

[Andreas Davour]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Richard Stallman wrote:

>     I've now mentioned the name of the Debian package.  I don't have/know
>     Redhat and SuSE, so I can't say about those.
> 
> Let's not bother with SuSE.  They develop non-free software,
> so let's not give them support.

Don't RedHat do that these days? Maybe they don't. But they do stupid
things like distribute nonworking gcc versions...

Anyway, I think SuSE are using the same packages as RedHat, aren't they?

/andreas

=================== Emacs =====================
			mail: ante@update.uu.se
		  	or try: Koraq@yahoo.com
groove out at: http://www.update.uu.se/~ante/
====== The choice of a GNU generation! ========