Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:39:54 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> branch: master
> commit 11abc4aef42ceaea451c264e5a7292e765d4f31b
> Merge: cb72b83 d2341eb
> Author: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Commit: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>

>     Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

It's not a bug but my custom face setting got to malfunction by
this change, i.e., to turn lexical-binding on on the gnus files.
My custom face setting is something like the following:

(push '((string-match "REGEX" group) . custom-face)
      gnus-group-highlight)

Where `group' is a group name; it aimed to highlight groups of
which the name match "REGEX" by `custom-face' in the Group buffer.
However, `group' is no longer a bound variable now.  So, I'd like
to add `group' to an env list in `gnus-group-update-eval-form' as
the patch below.  Is it ok?  Thanks.

--- gnus-group.el~	2021-02-01 22:35:19.611070900 +0000
+++ gnus-group.el	2021-02-02 00:41:32.041329700 +0000
@@ -1639,5 +1639,6 @@
 	     (cons 'score (or (gnus-info-score info) 0))
 	     (cons 'ticked (gnus-range-length (cdr (assq 'tick marked))))
-	     (cons 'group-age (gnus-group-timestamp-delta group)))))
+	     (cons 'group-age (gnus-group-timestamp-delta group))
+	     (cons 'group group))))
       (while (and list
                   (not (eval (caar list) env)))

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Stefan Monnier]

Katsumi Yamaoka [2021-02-02 09:44:57] wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:39:54 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> branch: master
>> commit 11abc4aef42ceaea451c264e5a7292e765d4f31b
>> Merge: cb72b83 d2341eb
>> Author: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
>> Commit: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
>
>>     Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk
>
> It's not a bug but my custom face setting got to malfunction by
> this change,

I think it *is* a bug ;-)

> i.e., to turn lexical-binding on on the gnus files.
> My custom face setting is something like the following:
>
> (push '((string-match "REGEX" group) . custom-face)
>       gnus-group-highlight)

Indeed, I see that `gnus-group-highlight`s docstring explicitly mentions
`group` as a variable that can be used there, so we should include it.

> Where `group' is a group name; it aimed to highlight groups of
> which the name match "REGEX" by `custom-face' in the Group buffer.
> However, `group' is no longer a bound variable now.  So, I'd like
> to add `group' to an env list in `gnus-group-update-eval-form' as
> the patch below.  Is it ok?  Thanks.

Looking at the docstring, I see that `method` is also missing, and on
the flip side, I see that additionally to what the docstring mentions,
the code provides `total` and `group-age`.

Could someone help me figure out what should happen with those
extra vars?

Should `total` and/or `group-age` be removed from the code in
`gnus-group-update-eval-form`, or should they instead be documented in
the docstring of `gnus-group-highlight` and, if so, saying what?


        Stefan


diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-group.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-group.el
index 3661b6376d..25abb911a6 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-group.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-group.el
@@ -367,13 +367,15 @@ gnus-group-highlight
 change in a future release.  For now, you can use the following
 variables in the Lisp expression:
 
-group: The name of the group.
-unread: The number of unread articles in the group.
-method: The select method used.
-mailp: Whether it's a mail group or not.
-level: The level of the group.
-score: The score of the group.
-ticked: The number of ticked articles."
+`group': The name of the group.
+`unread': The number of unread articles in the group.
+`method': The select method used.
+`total': ??
+`mailp': Whether it's a mail group or not.
+`level': The level of the group.
+`score': The score of the group.
+`ticked': The number of ticked articles.
+`group-age': ??"
   :group 'gnus-group-visual
   :type '(repeat (cons (sexp :tag "Form") face)))
 (put 'gnus-group-highlight 'risky-local-variable t)
@@ -401,16 +403,8 @@ gnus-group-icon-list
 
 It is also possible to change and add form fields, but currently that
 requires an understanding of Lisp expressions.  Hopefully this will
-change in a future release.  For now, you can use the following
-variables in the Lisp expression:
-
-group: The name of the group.
-unread: The number of unread articles in the group.
-method: The select method used.
-mailp: Whether it's a mail group or not.
-level: The level of the group.
-score: The score of the group.
-ticked: The number of ticked articles."
+change in a future release.  For now, you can use the same
+variables in the Lisp expression as in those of `gnus-group-highlight'."
   :group 'gnus-group-icons
   :type '(repeat (cons (sexp :tag "Form") file)))
 (put 'gnus-group-icon-list 'risky-local-variable t)
@@ -1624,7 +1618,9 @@ gnus-group-update-eval-form
            (marked (gnus-info-marks info))
 	   (env
 	    (list
+	     (cons 'group group)
 	     (cons 'unread (if (numberp (car entry)) (car entry) 0))
+	     (cons 'method method)
 	     (cons 'total (if active (1+ (- (cdr active) (car active))) 0))
 	     (cons 'mailp (apply
 			   #'append

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Would someone please tell me what "remote tracking" means, concretely?
What does that branch do?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Tassilo Horn]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Would someone please tell me what "remote tracking" means, concretely?
> What does that branch do?

You most probably have at least the branches origin/master and master in
your local git checkout.  The origin/master branch is a remote-tracking
branch because it tracks the state of the corresponding master branch on
the origin (savannah) side.  That means, it'll be updated whenever you
run "git fetch" and represents the exact state of the master branch on
savannah of the last "git fetch".

Your master branch is basically a copy of origin/master which is not
automatically updated unless you tell it using "git pull" (or by merging
or rebasing onto origin/master).  That is, it may be less current than
origin/master and may also diverge from in in which case you need to
merge or rebase in order to be allowed push.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Andreas Schwab]

On Feb 02 2021, Richard Stallman wrote:

> Would someone please tell me what "remote tracking" means, concretely?

See gitglossary(7).

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Looking at the docstring, I see that `method` is also missing, and on
> the flip side, I see that additionally to what the docstring mentions,
> the code provides `total` and `group-age`.
>
> Could someone help me figure out what should happen with those
> extra vars?
>
> Should `total` and/or `group-age` be removed from the code in
> `gnus-group-update-eval-form`, or should they instead be documented in
> the docstring of `gnus-group-highlight` and, if so, saying what?

Should probably be documented.

total: The total number of articles in the group.
group-age: Time since the group was last read
           (see info node `(gnus)Group Timestamp').

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[tomas]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1636 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 07:38:59AM +0100, Tassilo Horn wrote:
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> >
> > Would someone please tell me what "remote tracking" means, concretely?
> > What does that branch do?

[...]

> Your master branch is basically a copy of origin/master which is not
> automatically updated unless you tell it using "git pull" (or by merging
> or rebasing onto origin/master).

Just in case the above is unclear: you usually don't *want* "your"
master (or main, or devel) branch automatically updated, since you
(typically) will have made changes to them. You want to do an explicit
merge, at a time you are prepared to sort out the conflicts which
may arise.

Consider the "tracking" branches (origin/master, origin/main, or
whatever) as a cache of sorts for the remote repository "origin".

The nice thing about git is that it makes those things explicit [1].
It may be confusing at the beginning, but it gives you way more
freedom in the long run.

Cheers

[1] Caches are typically "implicit". You don't see the cache itself,
   things are just "magically" faster. To inspect the cache, you
   are supposed to buy the "pro kit", i.e. some debugger. Some
   implementations go the extra mile to make it difficult for the
   users to "see" the cache: they take the adage "information hiding"
   literally (too literally, for my taste ;-)

 - t

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Stefan Monnier]

> total: The total number of articles in the group.

OK, that'll clearly ab in integer.

> group-age: Time since the group was last read
>            (see info node `(gnus)Group Timestamp').

Is that a string, a count of seconds, or .... ?


        Stefan

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> group-age: Time since the group was last read
>>            (see info node `(gnus)Group Timestamp').
>
> Is that a string, a count of seconds, or .... ?

Looks like seconds as a floating point number.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org>
> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 09:16:52 +0100
> Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> On Feb 02 2021, Richard Stallman wrote:
> 
> > Would someone please tell me what "remote tracking" means, concretely?
> 
> See gitglossary(7).

Which divulges this:

  remote-tracking branch
     A "ref" that is used to follow changes from another
     "repository". It typically looks like refs/remotes/foo/bar
     (indicating that it tracks a branch named bar in a remote named
     foo), and matches the right-hand-side of a configured fetch
     "refspec". A remote-tracking branch should not contain direct
     modifications or have local commits made to it.

Basically, "remote-tracking branch is a branch that tracks some
remote".  Very clear, right?

And if you think that the references clarify this, then here they are:

  ref

    A name that begins with refs/ (e.g. refs/heads/master) that points
    to an object name or another ref (the latter is called a symbolic
    ref). For convenience, a ref can sometimes be abbreviated when used
    as an argument to a Git command; see gitrevisions(7) for
    details. Refs are stored in the repository.

  refspec

    A "refspec" is used by fetch and push to describe the mapping
    between remote ref and local ref.

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:06:32 +0100
> From: <tomas@tuxteam.de>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> The nice thing about git is that it makes those things explicit [1].

Careful: there are those (including yours truly) who think that this
is a terrible misfeature, which only benefits people with too much
time on their hands and the wish to understand the innards of Git.  A
VCS should do its job without asking me to understand too much about
its mechanics.  If I want to know how it works, I will then go ahead
and read on it, or even (gasp!) look at its sources.

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[tomas]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 954 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 05:23:51PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 10:06:32 +0100
> > From: <tomas@tuxteam.de>
> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > 
> > The nice thing about git is that it makes those things explicit [1].
> 
> Careful: there are those (including yours truly) who think that this
> is a terrible misfeature, which only benefits people with too much
> time on their hands and the wish to understand the innards of Git.  A
> VCS should do its job without asking me to understand too much about
> its mechanics.  If I want to know how it works, I will then go ahead
> and read on it, or even (gasp!) look at its sources.

Eli, I do understand your point. After all, I had to master enough of
git to make it useful for me, and believe me, it wasn't without some
amount of swearing and screaming. FWIW, this was my Emacs story too.

I hope my explanation uptext was at least of some help :)

Cheers
 - t

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:01:14 +0100
> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> Cc: tsdh@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> I hope my explanation uptext was at least of some help :)

As usual.  (What I wrote was not about your explanations, it was about
that single sentence.)

git things [was: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk]

[tomas]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 712 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 06:21:38PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 17:01:14 +0100
> > From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> > Cc: tsdh@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > 
> > I hope my explanation uptext was at least of some help :)
> 
> As usual.

Thanks

>    (What I wrote was not about your explanations, it was about
> that single sentence.)

Yes, I got that.

I'm convinced this is a very personal thing: some people just
"resonate" with the way an application (or, what's appriximately
the same, a programming language ) works, some not (I think
this is why discussions about such things tend to be heated :-)

For me, the battle with git paid off handsomely.

Cheers
 - t

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 10:05:19 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> total: The total number of articles in the group.
> group-age: Time since the group was last read
>            (see info node `(gnus)Group Timestamp').
On Tue, 02 Feb 2021 15:53:11 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Looks like seconds as a floating point number.

Thanks so much for making it great and clear.
I'm glad this issue is fixed so quickly.

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Careful: there are those (including yours truly) who think that this
  > is a terrible misfeature, which only benefits people with too much
  > time on their hands and the wish to understand the innards of Git.

I share your feelings about Git.  Ever since a friend explained
concretely how to handle conflicts, I can use Git, but I still prefer
CVS.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Basically, "remote-tracking branch is a branch that tracks some
  > remote".  Very clear, right?

I am as lost as you are.  But it suggetss to me that the purpose of
the code in thatbranch is to support some Git feature.  Developers, is
that the case?  If so, it is probably good for Emacs to work with it.

But it seems to me that people should have explained the branc's
purpose and got your approval before installing it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 00:52:13 -0500
> 
> I am as lost as you are.  But it suggetss to me that the purpose of
> the code in thatbranch is to support some Git feature.

No, it's about switching Gnus files to lexical-bincing.

> But it seems to me that people should have explained the branc's
> purpose and got your approval before installing it.

I understood the purpose, and as long as Gnus continues to be
functional, there's no need for my approval (especially as I myself
don't use Gnus).

Re: master 11abc4a: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/scratch/lexical-gnus' into trunk

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > But it seems to me that people should have explained the branc's
  > > purpose and got your approval before installing it.

  > I understood the purpose, and as long as Gnus continues to be
  > functional, there's no need for my approval (especially as I myself
  > don't use Gnus).

I'm sorry, I understood you to be saying you didn't understand it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)