WebKit plugins?

WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Inspecting the source of `xwidget.el', I came across the following
curiosity:

  (when (memq window-system '(mac ns))
    (defcustom xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins nil
      "Enable plugins for xwidget webkit.
  If non-nil, plugins are enabled.  Otherwise, disabled."
      :type 'boolean
      :version "28.1"))

The only place where these are used is in nsxwidget.m, which is only
useful on macOS:

  Lisp_Object enablePlugins =
    Fintern (build_string ("xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins"), Qnil);
  if (!EQ (Fsymbol_value (enablePlugins), Qnil))
    configuration.preferences.plugInsEnabled = YES;

I couldn't find any documentation with respect to what these plugins
are, and what they do.  Could someone explain what these are, and if
and/or why they cannot be used with WebKitGTK+?  Thanks.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Aiko Kyle]

https://webkitgtk.org/reference/webkit2gtk/stable/WebKitPlugin.html

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:40 PM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Inspecting the source of `xwidget.el', I came across the following
> curiosity:
>
>   (when (memq window-system '(mac ns))
>     (defcustom xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins nil
>       "Enable plugins for xwidget webkit.
>   If non-nil, plugins are enabled.  Otherwise, disabled."
>       :type 'boolean
>       :version "28.1"))
>
> The only place where these are used is in nsxwidget.m, which is only
> useful on macOS:
>
>   Lisp_Object enablePlugins =
>     Fintern (build_string ("xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins"), Qnil);
>   if (!EQ (Fsymbol_value (enablePlugins), Qnil))
>     configuration.preferences.plugInsEnabled = YES;
>
> I couldn't find any documentation with respect to what these plugins
> are, and what they do.  Could someone explain what these are, and if
> and/or why they cannot be used with WebKitGTK+?  Thanks.
>

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Aiko Kyle <aikokyle@gmail.com> writes:

> https://webkitgtk.org/reference/webkit2gtk/stable/WebKitPlugin.html

It seems like this class is deprecated though.  Is the functionality
still present and useful on newer versions of WebKitGTK?

Thanks.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Akira Kyle]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 7:43 PM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > https://webkitgtk.org/reference/webkit2gtk/stable/WebKitPlugin.html
>
> It seems like this class is deprecated though.  Is the functionality
> still present and useful on newer versions of WebKitGTK?

AFAIK both webkitgtk and ns webkit both follow the same API from the
core webkit project. Thus if plugins are deprecated in webkitgtk, so
too are they deprecated in ns webkit (see
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/wkpreferences/1536894-pluginsenabled?language=objc
for confirmation). I think these plugins were things like flash or
java applets, support for which has been removed from all major
browsers due to security and performance issues along with better
alternatives.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Akira Kyle <akira@akirakyle.com> writes:

> I think these plugins were things like flash or java applets, support
> for which has been removed from all major browsers due to security and
> performance issues along with better alternatives.

Are any of these plugins free software?  As I understand, the Java
browser plugin is still proprietary, and not part of OpenJDK.

Thanks.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Akira Kyle]

On Wed, Nov 10, 2021 at 7:44 PM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Are any of these plugins free software?  As I understand, the Java
> browser plugin is still proprietary, and not part of OpenJDK.

Of the ones that I know of (Flash, Java, Silverlight, and QuickTime)
none of them are free software. The vast majority of websites that
used these technologies have since moved away as plugins have been
disabled by default in browsers starting four or five years ago
(https://webkit.org/blog/6589/next-steps-for-legacy-plug-ins/) and
were never available to begin with on mobile browsers.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Akira Kyle <akira@akirakyle.com> writes:

> Of the ones that I know of (Flash, Java, Silverlight, and QuickTime)
> none of them are free software. The vast majority of websites that
> used these technologies have since moved away as plugins have been
> disabled by default in browsers starting four or five years ago
> (https://webkit.org/blog/6589/next-steps-for-legacy-plug-ins/) and
> were never available to begin with on mobile browsers.

So it would be OK to make this variable obsolete, and to make it not
affect anything, right?

Thanks.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Akira Kyle]

Yes I think so

On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 12:31 AM Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Akira Kyle <akira@akirakyle.com> writes:
>
> > Of the ones that I know of (Flash, Java, Silverlight, and QuickTime)
> > none of them are free software. The vast majority of websites that
> > used these technologies have since moved away as plugins have been
> > disabled by default in browsers starting four or five years ago
> > (https://webkit.org/blog/6589/next-steps-for-legacy-plug-ins/) and
> > were never available to begin with on mobile browsers.
>
> So it would be OK to make this variable obsolete, and to make it not
> affect anything, right?
>
> Thanks.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

The use of plug-ins in xwidget can raise important legal and ethical
issues.  Can you please help us find out what legal and ethical issues
it raises?

For instance, does it load plug-ins?  If so, can you describe where
these plug-ins come from?  Would they be written specifically to
function in Emacs?  Or is there a large library of existing plug-ins
that were not written for Emacs?

Are all of the plug-ins free software?

Is any of then a web-browser?



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> The use of plug-ins in xwidget can raise important legal and ethical
> issues.  Can you please help us find out what legal and ethical issues
> it raises?

That's why I was asking: I don't know what plugins are, and the
implications of using them.  And more importantly, why they are only
available on a non-free system.

> For instance, does it load plug-ins?  If so, can you describe where
> these plug-ins come from?  Would they be written specifically to
> function in Emacs?  Or is there a large library of existing plug-ins
> that were not written for Emacs?

I assume they are web plugins, such as Lightspark or Gnash.

> Are all of the plug-ins free software?

No, AFAIU.  The other problem is that these plug-ins are not available
on free systems, and I want to find out why.

> Is any of then a web-browser?

I can't think of one, but it would certainly be possible.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Stefan Kangas]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

> Inspecting the source of `xwidget.el', I came across the following
> curiosity:
>
>   (when (memq window-system '(mac ns))
>     (defcustom xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins nil
>       "Enable plugins for xwidget webkit.
>   If non-nil, plugins are enabled.  Otherwise, disabled."
>       :type 'boolean
>       :version "28.1"))
>
> The only place where these are used is in nsxwidget.m, which is only
> useful on macOS:
>
>   Lisp_Object enablePlugins =
>     Fintern (build_string ("xwidget-webkit-enable-plugins"), Qnil);
>   if (!EQ (Fsymbol_value (enablePlugins), Qnil))
>     configuration.preferences.plugInsEnabled = YES;
>
> I couldn't find any documentation with respect to what these plugins
> are, and what they do.  Could someone explain what these are, and if
> and/or why they cannot be used with WebKitGTK+?  Thanks.

That was added here:

    commit d089c4fbfc8be432dc3015a99b4044dab0a0de97
    Author: Sungbin Jo <pcr910303@icloud.com>
    Date:   Wed Aug 12 12:12:34 2020 +0200

        Add xwidget support for macOS

        Co-authored-by: Jaesup Kwak <veshboo@gmail.com>

I've CC:ed the authors of that change.

Re: WebKit plugins?

[Po Lu]

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:

> That was added here:
>
>     commit d089c4fbfc8be432dc3015a99b4044dab0a0de97
>     Author: Sungbin Jo <pcr910303@icloud.com>
>     Date:   Wed Aug 12 12:12:34 2020 +0200
>
>         Add xwidget support for macOS
>
>         Co-authored-by: Jaesup Kwak <veshboo@gmail.com>
>
> I've CC:ed the authors of that change.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing back from Sungbin and/or Jaesup.