Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: devil

[Susam Pal <susam.pal@gmail.com>]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> From: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>,  susam.pal@gmail.com,
> >>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> >> Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:53:15 +0530
> >>
> >> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> >>
> >> > Why use the name "Devil" for this?  It doesn't seen to explain anything
> >> > about the package's purpose.  It is likely to put some people off.
> >>
> >> Every name is going to put someone or another off, can't really help it.
> >> OpenBSD has their daemon and there are already funny anecdotes about it,
> >> but it doesn't hurt anyone.
>
> Also, "daemon" is not just an OpenBSD thing.
>
> > "daemon" is a term whose meaning in computing context is widely
> > accepted for many years.  "Devil' isn't.
>
> I agree.
>
> >> > If there is no clear reason why "Devil" is a good name, let's choose
> >> > a better name now.
> >>
> >> As mentioned by Susam in previous mail, as well as the repo README, the
> >> name refers both to 'eVil' (extensible Vi Layer) as well as 'God-mode'.
> >
> > People are extremely unlikely to understand that, even if they know
> > about Evil in Emacs.  And even if they do figure out this is related
> > to Evil, the truth is that the package is not meant to be used by
> > users of Evil.
>
> I think it is more likely than you assume if you ask enthusiasts, but if
> we consider the average user who doesn't hang around in Emacs-related
> forums, chats, etc. then this is very true.
>
> >> The name is distinct, and I like it for what it is.
> >
> > Please reconsider, I think this name is very unfortunate, because it
> > gives users no clue whatsoever about the package's purpose.
>
> Susam, what do you say?  Do you have any ideas?  A few names I can think
> of might be:
>
> - no-modifier-mode
> - prefixless-mode
> - implicit-ctrl-mode
> - comma->control-mode
>
> but I'm not really convinced by any of these (haven't really used the
> package yet either).  Perhaps this might inspire someone else to come up
> with a better suggestion?

Although the default translation rules in Devil translates comma to
ctrl, m to meta, etc., Devil is very configurable and one is free to
configure Devil in other ways that may or may not involve the comma
key or the modifier keys.

For example, I am aware that there are users of Devil who use the
semicolon as the Devil activation key and translate semicolon to
control. There are also users who only translate some activation key
to control key but regular alt modifier key on their keyboard for the
meta modifier.

> If you really insist, then I think we really have to come up with a
> better description, because "Minor mode for Devil-like command entering"
> is really confusing.
>
> > Thanks.

While I understand the desire for a more descriptive name, I believe
that "Devil" is a suitable choice due to its humorous reference to
both God mode and Evil mode. Some people like the name. Some do not. I
like this name.

If it is essential for the package's name to reflect its purpose, I
propose "Devil" to stand for "Devil's Extremely Versatile Interception
Layer".

I agree that the current description of the package needs improvement.
I have now updated it to "Minor mode for intercepting and translating
key sequences."

Regards,
Susam