[PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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Hi folks!

Just letting you know that the subed package (
https://elpa.nongnu.org/nongnu/subed.html ) has moved from
https://github.com/rndusr/subed to https://github.com/sachac/subed ,
since I'm taking over as maintainer for it. Could someone please update
NonGNU ELPA? Thanks!


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From e8b70be8ecf8b1128cee1ccb675209cb850bdee7 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2021 17:00:51 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] elpa-packages (subed): Move repository

---
 elpa-packages | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 989d558909..08c5d45707 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -274,7 +274,7 @@
   ;; https://github.com/Fuco1/smartparens/releases/tag/1.11.0
   :version-map ((nil "1.11.0" "4873352b5d0a1c5142658122de1b6950b8fe7e4d")))
 
- ("subed"		:url "https://github.com/rndusr/subed"
+ ("subed"		:url "https://github.com/sachac/subed"
   :lisp-dir "subed")
 
  ("solarized-theme"	:url "https://github.com/bbatsov/solarized-emacs"
-- 
2.25.1


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Sacha

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Monnier]

Sacha Chua [2021-12-19 17:04:20] wrote:
> Just letting you know that the subed package (
> https://elpa.nongnu.org/nongnu/subed.html ) has moved from
> https://github.com/rndusr/subed to https://github.com/sachac/subed ,
> since I'm taking over as maintainer for it. Could someone please update
> NonGNU ELPA? Thanks!

Done, thanks,


        Stefan

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Would you (or someone else) perhaps be interested in chasing down the
significant code in subed.el that isn't assigned, and asking for
assignments for that code?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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On Mon., Dec. 20, 2021, 23:15 Richard Stallman, <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

Would you (or someone else) perhaps be interested in chasing down the
> significant code in subed.el that isn't assigned, and asking for
> assignments for that code?
>

With the goal of getting it into GNU ELPA? I'm not sure. I think there are
nine people in the git commit logs, so it's probably doable, but a large
part of its functionality depends on mpv, which is in NonGNU ELPA. Is it
okay for ELPA packages to depend on NonGNU ELPA? The ELPA readme doesn't
have the same kind of section on dependency restriction that NonGNU ELPA's
readme does, and a quick search of emacs-devel for gnu elpa depend nongnu
didn't seem to turn up an answer.

Also, the original author has mentioned not wanting to scare off
contributors with the need for papers (
https://github.com/sachac/subed/issues/29 ), so I kinda want to stick with
their wishes especially while I'm getting the hang of things.

It's probably going to be just fine in NonGNU ELPA, right? It's pretty
niche, but having it in NonGNU ELPA already helps a great deal in making it
more accessible to less-technical users.

If it's easier for more people to work with captions and subtitles, maybe
we'll have more accessible Emacs videos, and maybe even more non-technical
users coming in to subtitle stuff. Let's see!

Sacha

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Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Monnier]

> With the goal of getting it into GNU ELPA? I'm not sure. I think there are
> nine people in the git commit logs, so it's probably doable, but a large
> part of its functionality depends on mpv, which is in NonGNU ELPA.

Not sure what you're referring to: I don't see any `mpv` package in NonGNU ELPA.

> Is it okay for ELPA packages to depend on NonGNU ELPA?

Yes!


        Stefan

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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On Tue., Dec. 21, 2021, 19:35 Stefan Monnier, <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
wrote:

Not sure what you're referring to: I don't see any `mpv` package in NonGNU
> ELPA.
>

Hah, sorry, I got a little confused by something else. That's right, no mpv
in NonGNU ELPA, so not a problem then. It's not a dependency anyway,
although that does mean that for the best subtitling experience, people
will need to install mpv from that other repository.

... Is the mpv package the sort of thing that might be considered for
inclusion in NonGNU ELPA? :) It would be pretty neat to be able to let
people package-install and get all the useful parts, although they'll still
need to install the actual mpv player separately. (At least until that
Emacs-based video player gets all sorted out...)

> Is it okay for ELPA packages to depend on NonGNU ELPA?
> Yes!
>

Okay, I can try asking the other contributors. Might be a bit of a low
probability, though, but worth a shot.

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Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Kangas]

Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:

> Hah, sorry, I got a little confused by something else. That's right, no mpv
> in NonGNU ELPA, so not a problem then. It's not a dependency anyway,
> although that does mean that for the best subtitling experience, people
> will need to install mpv from that other repository.

mpv.el only has one significant contributor so maybe we could get that
into GNU ELPA as well?

> ... Is the mpv package the sort of thing that might be considered for
> inclusion in NonGNU ELPA? :)

I think we should include it.

I see that mpv.el doesn't have a file COPYING in its repository.
I'm not sure if that would be important to fix first.

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I see that mpv.el doesn't have a file COPYING in its repository.
  > I'm not sure if that would be important to fix first.

It is violating the GPL.  That's a problem that ought to be fixed --
but fixing it won't be hard.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>   > I see that mpv.el doesn't have a file COPYING in its repository.
>   > I'm not sure if that would be important to fix first.
> It is violating the GPL.  That's a problem that ought to be fixed --
> but fixing it won't be hard.

I've submitted a pull request and included a link to the post about
including it in NonGNU ELPA. I've also e-mailed rndusr (original author
of subed) about copyright assignment. Let's see how that goes!

Sacha

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Monnier]

>   > I see that mpv.el doesn't have a file COPYING in its repository.
>   > I'm not sure if that would be important to fix first.
> It is violating the GPL.

Hmm... I must have missed something: where/how does mpv.el violate the GPL?
Are you saying it's violating the GPL because the COPYING file doesn't
sit next to it?

If so, the majority of our GNU ELPA packages violate the GPL as well and
I see no benefit in "fixing" that: not only the COPYING is 3 times the
size of the `mpv.el` package but every user of an ELPA package can be
presumed to have a copy of the COPYING file already (because they have
a copy of Emacs).


        Stefan

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Hmm... I must have missed something: where/how does mpv.el violate the GPL?
  > Are you saying it's violating the GPL because the COPYING file doesn't
  > sit next to it?

Yes -- in the absence of some other way to satisfy that requirement.

  > If so, the majority of our GNU ELPA packages violate the GPL as well and

I can see three possible concrete meanings for that.

(1) As distributed in GNU ELPA, they are not distributed with copies
of the GPL.

We can solve that by putting one copy of the GNU GPL into the web
pages for GNU ELPA, in a clearly visible and findable way.  Then all
the GNU ELPA packages will be distributed with that copy of it.

(2) In the places where their developers distribute them, ...

The developers ought to fix that, but it won't take much work or
resources for each developer.  If someone distributes multiple
packages from the same site, one copy of the GNU GPL is enough for all
of them, as above.

(3) In other places where people distribute them, ...

Depends on the details.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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On Thu., Dec. 23, 2021, 01:35 Sacha Chua, <sacha@sachachua.com> wrote:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >   > I see that mpv.el doesn't have a file COPYING in its repository.
> >   > I'm not sure if that would be important to fix first.
> > It is violating the GPL.  That's a problem that ought to be fixed --
> > but fixing it won't be hard.
> I've submitted a pull request and included a link to the post about
> including it in NonGNU ELPA. I've also e-mailed rndusr (original author
> of subed) about copyright assignment. Let's see how that goes!


Okay, https://github.com/kljohann/mpv.el now has COPYING, and kljohann's
okay with it being included in NonGNU ELPA if you wish. I've found it
pretty handy, so I hope you'll consider including it!

Sacha

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Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > With the goal of getting it into GNU ELPA? I'm not sure. I think there are
  > nine people in the git commit logs, so it's probably doable, but a large
  > part of its functionality depends on mpv, which is in NonGNU ELPA. Is it
  > okay for ELPA packages to depend on NonGNU ELPA?

I think we should avoid that -- if "depends" means "needs, in order to
be useful".  Everything in core Emacs should work and be useful without
ELPA.  And everything in GNU ELPA should work and be useful without
NonGNU ELPA.

The idea of NonGNU ELPA is to be add-ons to the rest.

Otherwise, Emacs proper becomes a patchwork of missing components.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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On Mon., Dec. 27, 2021, 23:22 Richard Stallman, <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

>  so it's probably doable, but a large
>   > part of its functionality depends on mpv, which is in NonGNU ELPA. Is
> it
>   > okay for ELPA packages to depend on NonGNU ELPA?
> I think we should avoid that -- if "depends" means "needs, in order to
> be useful".  Everything in core Emacs should work and be useful without
> ELPA.  And everything in GNU ELPA should work and be useful without
> NonGNU ELPA.
>

As it turns out, subed-mpv.el doesn't even use mpv.el, as it implements its
own process control for the external MPV video player, so no problem at
all. :) Uh, yes, I did actually accept the maintenance of a package that
I've only read about half of, but that's mainly because I kept submitting
patches for the stuff I wanted to tweak and the original author hasn't
written Emacs Lisp in a while... I will try to not make a mess of things
while I'm squeezing coding/email into my sleep-deprived discretionary time.
:)

The idea of NonGNU ELPA is to be add-ons to the rest.
>

It's probably pretty reasonable to keep subed in NonGNU ELPA instead of GNU
ELPA, anyway.

Sacha

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Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Kangas]

Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:

> It's probably pretty reasonable to keep subed in NonGNU ELPA instead of GNU
> ELPA, anyway.

FWIW, I think we should have a good mode to edit subtitle files.  It is
a text file that you will reasonably want to edit with Emacs.  AFAICT,
subed seems to do that job.

In the future, we will distribute some (or all?) GNU ELPA packages with
the Emacs distribution itself, which will make having it in GNU ELPA
even more useful.

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > It's probably pretty reasonable to keep subed in NonGNU ELPA instead of GNU
  > ELPA, anyway.

I think it is something we would like to have in Emacs itself (perhaps
ELPA) -- if someone will do the necessary work.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>   > It's probably pretty reasonable to keep subed in NonGNU ELPA instead of GNU
>   > ELPA, anyway.
> I think it is something we would like to have in Emacs itself (perhaps
> ELPA) -- if someone will do the necessary work.

As it turns out, the author of subed would like to stay anonymous (not
even letting FSF know his or her real name), so this might be a no-go
for this particular implementation. Perhaps someone will write a
different one that can be included someday!

Sacha

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Stefan Kangas]

Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:

> As it turns out, the author of subed would like to stay anonymous (not
> even letting FSF know his or her real name), so this might be a no-go
> for this particular implementation. Perhaps someone will write a
> different one that can be included someday!

Thanks again for looking into it!

For posterity, subed is on NonGNU ELPA:
    https://elpa.nongnu.org/nongnu/subed.html

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > As it turns out, the author of subed would like to stay anonymous (not
  > even letting FSF know his or her real name), so this might be a no-go
  > for this particular implementation.

That could be a challenge, but there may be a solution.  Please don't
give up without seeking if we have a solution.  Rather, please talk
with the licensing staff.  They may have handled this before.




-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [PATCH] NonGNU ELPA update for subed package - moved repositories

[Sacha Chua]

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On Sun., Jan. 2, 2022, 23:37 Richard Stallman, <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

>
 of subed would like to stay anonymous (not
>   > even letting FSF know his or her real name), so this might be a no-go
>   > for this particular implementation.
> That could be a challenge, but there may be a solution.  Please don't
> give up without seeking if we have a solution.  Rather, please talk
> with the licensing staff.  They may have handled this before.
>

The subed author reached out to assign@gnu.org a few days ago, so we'll
probably find out once everyone gets back from the holidays. I'll update
people here if they work something out, or if the author decides to decloak
later on.

I hope that better subtitle support will encourage us to caption/transcribe
more videos and turn them into blog posts, wiki pages, and other more
searchable and more accessible resources, so it would be nice for this
support to be built in. :) Also, it turns out to be a handy way to think
about timestamped stuff, so I've even been using it for editing videos and
making presentations with a captions-first workflow.

Sacha

>

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