From: Thibaut Verron <thibaut.verron@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>,
casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com
Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 20:40:04 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAFsi02S3-paH6vWuQgZm+U4RvnCnRS_HX31DsGnYaqS+Rc7jzQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <837dsxdafi.fsf@gnu.org>
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Le dim. 13 sept. 2020 à 16:21, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> a écrit :
> > From: Thibaut Verron <thibaut.verron@gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:51:53 +0200
> > Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
> ams@gnu.org,
> > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com
> >
> > > The menu we have in C-mouse-3 does not show the most basic options
> like copy, paste, and so on
> > to
> > > access them fast.
> >
> > Why should it? We show the menu for the current major mode, which is
> > IMO more useful than basic editing.
> >
> > Is it? What feature of your major mode do you use more often than
> copy/paste?
>
> Typing characters, of course. I hope you will not suggest that we
> should have a menu item for inserting a character.
>
Of course not, the keyboard shortcut for character insertion is not
surprising. But basic operations which are not insertion? Copy/cut/paste,
undo/redo, maybe search/-and-replace... All those are very common
operations, none depend on the major mode, and all require to either learn
an unusual keyboard shortcut, use the toolbar, or navigate the menu-bar.
My point is that frequency of operations is not the only criterion for
> what to put on the context menu, not even the main one. The most
> important criterion, IMO, is what are the important operations that
> would be otherwise much harder to discover and invoke.
>
I agree, but I'd say that ease of invokation should take priority over ease
of discoverability. The menu bar offers just as much discoverability, but
the ease of use is greatly decreased there.
I have only one data point at hand, but I happen to have helped a new user
set up an emacs environment recently. They were happy with finding options
in the menu bar, and (a selective list of) major mode commands in the tool
bar.
The major-mode submenus of the menu bar were overwhelming on the other
hand, and finding the same menus on the context menu was not much help.
Not finding common operations such as copy and paste in the context menu
was more disconcerting (and directly led them to discovering and activating
CUA).
Ditto when their spell-check (again, activated without my help via the
menu) flagged some words and they didn't find the corrections in the
context menu.
We decided that the menu for the current major mode is a very good
> approximation to what the user would like to have at his/her
> fingertips.
Was it perhaps at the same time as it was decided that this menu should
require a modifier key in the default bindings? ;)
The context menu in emacs is underused to say the least, and I'd blame that
on both the hidden binding and the redundant contents.
Sadly, by the point users know enough to know how to address/report the
poor condition of the context menu, they simply don't care anymore because
they can get everything done with keyboard shortcuts and menu/tool bar.
There's probably some space for improving that, but I
> think the basic principle that the context menu should depend heavily
> on the major mode is valid and should be preserved.
>
I believe that it should depend on the context in a wide sense. That
includes the major mode, but also the minor modes, the thing at point,
whether the region is active, etc.
Copy-cut-paste and auto-correct suggestions should be no-brainers, for
instance.
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-09-13 18:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 289+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-08 16:02 Changes for emacs 28 TEC
2020-09-08 17:01 ` Yuan Fu
2020-09-08 17:45 ` TEC
2020-09-08 18:15 ` TEC
2020-09-08 19:28 ` tomas
2020-09-08 20:31 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 21:01 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-08 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 22:14 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-08 22:26 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 21:35 ` Daniel Martín
2020-09-09 16:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-09 16:22 ` T.V Raman
2020-09-09 16:45 ` TEC
2020-09-09 18:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-10 10:47 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 17:39 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 17:56 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-10 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 19:48 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 21:01 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 21:21 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-10 21:34 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-10 21:36 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-10 22:19 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 21:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 7:04 ` Philip K.
2020-09-11 7:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 7:44 ` tomas
2020-09-11 10:27 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 12:26 ` tomas
2020-09-11 15:19 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 10:50 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 8:41 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 10:30 ` tomas
2020-09-13 10:59 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 11:38 ` tomas
2020-09-13 12:53 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 15:05 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 16:17 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 16:38 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 12:15 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 12:40 ` tomas
2020-09-14 18:45 ` chad
2020-09-15 8:12 ` tomas
2020-09-15 18:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-15 21:17 ` tomas
2020-09-15 20:45 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 21:22 ` tomas
2020-09-15 23:32 ` Alan Third
2020-09-13 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 18:05 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 18:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 19:17 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 19:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 10:30 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 3:36 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 8:45 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-11 19:17 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 8:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 11:00 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 12:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 13:23 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 18:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 19:12 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 19:23 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 20:07 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 20:37 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-13 3:59 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 21:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 12:40 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 16:28 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 12:24 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-10 22:48 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-12 3:20 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 4:07 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 9:49 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 9:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-11 21:51 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 17:53 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 19:09 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 21:05 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 21:40 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-12 7:54 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 6:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 9:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 9:19 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-11 13:52 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-11 14:10 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-11 14:26 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-11 10:36 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 10:39 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 11:20 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 7:49 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 4:07 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 20:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 19:17 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 18:44 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 19:34 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 5:11 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-11 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-10 18:12 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-09 19:28 ` tomas
2020-09-09 21:33 ` Howard Melman
2020-09-09 22:19 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 11:20 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-10 11:27 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 11:57 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:52 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 6:07 ` TEC
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:13 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-09 16:57 ` Ergus
2020-09-09 17:08 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-09 17:16 ` Ergus
2020-09-09 17:25 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-09 17:34 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-10 9:09 ` "modern" colors " Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-10 10:20 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 10:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-10 10:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 11:08 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 12:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 13:17 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 13:55 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-10 14:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 18:40 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 18:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 18:58 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 13:15 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 13:42 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 14:13 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 14:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-11 14:36 ` Iñigo Serna
2020-09-11 22:14 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 9:03 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 10:19 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 5:51 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-13 14:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 18:40 ` Thibaut Verron [this message]
2020-09-13 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 11:24 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-12 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 12:41 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-12 15:43 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 8:53 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 3:50 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 8:08 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 9:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-14 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 15:48 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-12 10:13 ` Iñigo Serna
2020-09-12 11:13 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-12 12:26 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 14:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-12 15:37 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-12 17:26 ` TEC
[not found] ` <87o8maj1kh.fsf@gmail.com>
2020-09-12 18:27 ` TEC
2020-09-12 19:57 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 5:53 ` TEC
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 5:49 ` TEC
2020-09-15 6:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 2:49 ` TEC
2020-09-13 8:00 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 9:04 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-13 10:17 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 14:26 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-13 14:43 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 15:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-13 9:16 ` Colin Baxter
2020-09-12 19:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 1:14 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-15 6:54 ` toggle-light-dark-mode (was: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28) Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-15 17:51 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Caio Henrique
2020-09-15 19:03 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-15 20:10 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Caio Henrique
2020-09-16 19:31 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-16 20:14 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-09-16 20:32 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-16 20:59 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Stefan Monnier
2020-09-17 14:34 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 17:43 ` "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-12 19:53 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 19:59 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-12 20:09 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 8:07 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-12 20:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 16:22 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 19:49 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 20:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 21:43 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 22:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 22:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-13 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 22:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 22:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-14 14:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:45 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-14 17:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-14 17:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 19:47 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-14 20:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-15 7:40 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 14:50 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 15:51 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 16:01 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-15 16:30 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-15 16:05 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 16:30 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 16:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 16:31 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 14:47 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-14 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:35 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-14 14:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:46 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 3:57 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 3:57 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 6:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 23:29 ` Philip K.
2020-09-12 11:10 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-12 11:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 12:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:24 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 13:16 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 13:55 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-12 14:31 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 0:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 14:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 0:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-09 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-09 6:26 ` TEC
2020-09-09 15:43 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-09-12 14:21 "modern" colors " ej32u
2020-09-12 14:21 ej32u
2020-09-12 16:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-13 0:36 arthur miller
2020-09-13 0:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-14 3:49 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 5:14 ` TEC
2020-09-14 6:35 ` Ergus
2020-09-14 8:18 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 9:48 ` Ergus
2020-09-15 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 15:19 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-15 4:44 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-18 13:32 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 16:06 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-18 16:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 17:14 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-18 18:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 19:01 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-15 6:38 ` Marcus Harnisch
2020-09-15 15:54 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 1:26 arthur miller
2020-09-13 11:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-13 11:50 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 17:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
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