From: Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Anonymous <c4droid@foxmail.com>,
Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Some ideas with Emacs
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 10:56:03 -0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADs++6hfN7fSjJoXEAdC=5k-Pf3fJ0buwv1-Utm73n6ty6jgCw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmmc+7mVATXi_u5Gd5CydJQCxg5My+X38=jX3M665t4Pcw@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4028 bytes --]
Hi Anonymous and other people,
most people test small snippets of elisp code by executing sexps with
`C-x C-e' or variants of it, not by loading elisp files. My
(admittedly biased!) feeling is that the best way to help beginners
learn Lisp is by giving them sexps to play with - configurations,
plugins, and even long texts in English, are secondary...
I tried to do something in this direction in a package that I wrote
called "eev" that I often use to teach Emacs and programming to total
beginners - here are some links to it:
http://angg.twu.net/#eev
http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html
http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/eev.html
It comes with lots of tutorials. If you run
(find-eev-quick-intro)
(find-eev-intro)
(find-eval-intro)
these sexps will open three of its "sandboxed tutorials" in temporary
read-write buffers; I use read-write buffers to let users play with
the sexps in them more easily. Here are links to the htmlized versions
of these three tutorials:
http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html
http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-intro.html
http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eval-intro.html
The tutorial in (find-eval-intro) is one of the ones that is still
very messy and in need of being rewritten, but there are is a section
in it I think that is relevant to this discussion. You can access it
with:
http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eval-intro.html#10
(find-eval-intro "10. More on functions")
but let me copy it here...
10. More on functions
=====================
A symbol - for example `f' - can be both a varible and a
function; its "value as a variable" and its "value as a
function" are stored in different places. Try:
(setq f 2)
(setq f 5)
(defun f (x) (* x x))
(defun f (x) (* 10 x))
(symbol-value 'f)
(symbol-function 'f)
This is explained here:
(find-elnode "Symbol Components")
(find-elnode "Symbol Components" "value cell")
(find-elnode "Symbol Components" "function cell")
The content of a "function cell" is _usually_ a lambda
expression. See:
(find-elnode "Lambda Expressions")
(find-elnode "What Is a Function")
(find-elnode "What Is a Function" "lambda expression")
(find-elnode "What Is a Function" "byte-code function")
Try:
(setq f 2)
(setq f 5)
(set 'f 2)
(set 'f 5)
(fset 'f (lambda (x) (* x x)))
(fset 'f (lambda (x) (* 10 x)))
(defun f (x) (* 10 x))
(defun f (x) (* x x))
(symbol-value 'f)
(symbol-function 'f)
(f 4)
(f f)
((lambda (x) (* x x))
4)
((lambda (x) (* 10 x))
4)
I have only used that particular section in a couple of workshops -
i.e., in situations where the participants could easily try things,
discuss with their neighbors, and ask questions - but the point is
that I feel that we need more material like this... and I would love
to work with other people to produce it.
Cheers,
Eduardo Ochs
http://angg.twu.net/#eev
On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 at 10:44, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > I think if we want to have an ELisp tutorial, it should be a separate
> > manual. The current ELisp manual is a reference manual, and written
> > as such.
>
> I fail to see why a reference manual can't also include examples.
> I've had to search the web to understand how to use things before,
> even after having carefully read the relevant parts of the elisp
> manual and the doc string. An example says a thousand words, as the
> saying goes...
>
> I think the Python documentation is very good in this regard. Here is
> one example:
>
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#mapping-types-dict
>
> To be clear, I'm not suggesting that we should mandate that we should
> include examples. But I'd suggest to optionally add them where it
> makes sense, and possibly then only in the info version of the manual
> (since we lack space in the print edition).
>
> Best regards,
> Stefan Kangas
>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5679 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-11-29 13:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-11-29 9:05 Some ideas with Emacs Anonymous
2019-11-29 11:16 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-11-29 11:44 ` =?gb18030?B?QW5vbnltb3Vz?=
2019-11-30 5:54 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-11-30 5:51 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 5:57 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-01 10:56 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-01 11:08 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-01 13:40 ` VanL
2019-12-01 14:07 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-02 4:52 ` VanL
2019-12-02 6:12 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-03 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-03 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-03 16:21 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-03 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-03 17:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-03 19:51 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-03 19:32 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-03 19:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-03 23:08 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-04 3:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-06 18:29 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-04 8:39 ` VanL
2019-12-03 23:12 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-05 4:41 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-06 6:51 ` VanL
2019-12-06 20:13 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-06 23:58 ` VanL
2019-12-02 5:41 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-02 12:53 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-02 18:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-02 20:57 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-02 21:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-02 22:13 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-02 22:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-02 23:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-03 0:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-03 23:26 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-03 8:37 ` VanL
2019-12-03 10:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-03 11:14 ` VanL
2019-12-05 4:44 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-05 7:30 ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-12-06 4:11 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-07 2:21 ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-12-08 5:06 ` Librepay Richard Stallman
2019-12-08 12:10 ` Librepay VanL
2019-12-03 5:03 ` Some ideas with Emacs Richard Stallman
2019-12-03 4:58 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-04 0:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-05 4:41 ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-11 19:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-06-03 4:25 ` Richard Stallman
2019-11-29 11:37 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-29 11:59 ` Anonymous
2019-11-29 12:31 ` Emacs: the Editor for the Next Forty Years (was Re: Some ideas with Emacs) Juanma Barranquero
2019-11-29 13:22 ` Some ideas with Emacs Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-29 13:34 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-29 13:56 ` Eduardo Ochs [this message]
2019-11-29 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-29 14:26 ` Anonymous
2019-11-30 3:51 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-12-01 3:14 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-11-29 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-11-29 18:58 ` Michael Albinus
2019-11-29 19:13 ` Adding examples in the doc (was: Some ideas with Emacs) Stefan Monnier
2019-11-29 19:30 ` Yuan Fu
2019-11-29 20:03 ` Adding examples in the doc Michael Albinus
2019-11-29 19:32 ` Some ideas with Emacs Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-29 20:09 ` Michael Albinus
2019-11-29 20:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-29 20:25 ` Michael Albinus
2019-11-29 20:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-01 6:25 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 7:35 ` Eduardo Ochs
2019-12-01 10:21 ` Michael Albinus
2019-12-01 6:19 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-11-29 21:42 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-11-30 0:12 ` João Távora
2019-12-01 6:48 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-30 0:44 ` Yuan Fu
2019-11-30 4:00 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-30 7:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-30 7:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-01 6:51 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-01 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 19:44 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2019-12-01 20:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-01 21:35 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-02 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-12-02 4:17 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-02 4:48 ` Yuan Fu
2019-12-02 4:53 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-02 15:57 ` Michael Albinus
2019-12-01 22:20 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2019-12-01 22:46 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 6:46 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 3:21 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 6:04 ` Richard Stallman
2019-12-01 6:15 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 6:05 ` Richard Stallman
2019-11-29 15:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-11-29 16:04 ` Robert Pluim
2019-11-30 11:21 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-01 2:41 ` VanL
2019-12-01 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-01 18:36 ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2019-12-03 6:07 ` Ag Ibragimov
2019-12-06 18:30 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-06 19:18 ` Juanma Barranquero
2019-12-06 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-06 21:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2019-12-06 21:26 ` Juanma Barranquero
2019-12-07 2:13 ` Ag Ibragimov
2019-12-07 3:14 ` Drew Adams
2019-12-10 20:55 ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-12-11 4:21 ` VanL
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CADs++6hfN7fSjJoXEAdC=5k-Pf3fJ0buwv1-Utm73n6ty6jgCw@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=eduardoochs@gmail.com \
--cc=c4droid@foxmail.com \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=stefan@marxist.se \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).