How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

Reading thru the various threads and replies by the luminaries of
lisp, CL, elisp, scheme,
functional programming etc.

I have decided to write a small game of following data in a buffer. At
this state I am only
readyfor the following questions. Yesterday, in my questions, I
explored how to get data
from buffer into strings.


8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



GOLD=1000

(defun find-my-marker-GOLD ()
  "Starting from anywhere in the file, find my marker GOLD its value
and location."
  (interactive)
  (save-excursion
    (save-match-data
      ;; Starting from the end of the file, find GOLD
      ;;
      (goto-char (point-max))
     ; Go to the end of the file, and then
      (search-backward-regexp "GOLD=\\([0-9]+\\)\n" nil nil nil)
     ;  find the GOLD, and
      (list
     ;  as an a-list, return its
       (list
	:GOLD-value                                                         ;
 value, and
	(string-to-number                                                   ;
 read and return it, with its
	 (replace-regexp-in-string "GOLD=\\([0-9]+\\)\n" "\\1"  (match-string 0))))
       (list
	:GOLD-location                                                      ;
 location.
	(point) )))))


; (assoc-default :GOLD-value (find-my-marker-GOLD))


(defun test-GOLD (GOLD)
  "for now, tests the alist passing mechanism, later more."
  (let ((GOLD-value    (car (assoc-default :GOLD-value    GOLD )))
	(GOLD-location (car (assoc-default :GOLD-location GOLD ))))
    (list GOLD-value GOLD-location)
    )
  )

(test-GOLD (find-my-marker-GOLD))
8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Q] Are there any defects in this method of passing struct and what
improvements are possible ?

    Specifically, are there ways to reduce verbosity without using cl
or staying purely in elisp ?

[Q] Is there a way to avoid lengthy calling statement like
      (car (assoc-default :GOLD-value    GOLD )
    inside let,

    since the first argument of let is an alist of the form
         ((sym1 val1) (sym2 val2))

[Q] Is there a way to using plists for return from find-my-marker-GOLD
    and utilize in the user function test-GOLD

[Q] As you can see, I am looking for several level of solutions so I
can weight them.
    The main goal is brevity, style improvement and more acceptable style.

 (a) Solution that is pure elisp and does not use any defmacros , defclass etc.
 (b) Solution that is clisp and un-restricted.
   (c) and within both of the above, solutions with plist and alist.

[Q] test-GOLD will actually be a function called find-GOLD-processing-plant

    similar to find-my-marker-GOLD in
    that it would go using this data to the nearest GOLD processing plant with
    the help of a suitable regexp. There was no need to split this set
of actions
    into several small functions except for the purpose of modularity. The issue
    is what is a good style for such a problem where there is coupling ie only
    find-GOLD-processing-plant can use the object of type GOLD, not a
    find-SILVER-processing-plant because there are some hidden assumptions, such
    as the nearest regexp of type PLANT=address near a GOLD=value object
    is a GOLD processing plant and the nearest regexp of type PLANT=address
    near a SILVER=value object is a SILVER processing plant.

    Thus, in view of this hidden coupling, which I am not able to get rid of
    without too much complication and


The main goals are
                     to write main function as a readable english prose
and also
                     to remove the verbosity in passing data (alist and plist)
                     in and out of functions.

Thanks again for your help.

For a newbie please put some comments as in my function
find-my-marker-GOLD since many of you try to use language constructs
in clever ways ?

Franz Xe

Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

There was no reply from the help mailing list and this is very
confusing so I am forced to go back where the crowd is. Its a very
simple issue of cons versus list below.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism
using alist or plist ?
To: Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org>
Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org


On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> wrote:
> [cc changed to help-gnu-emacs -- this does not belong on emacs-devel]
>
> () Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com>
> () Sun, 5 Dec 2010 12:15:08 -0800
>
>   [code]
>
> Here is ‘find-my-marker-GOLD’, munged a bit:
>
> (defun find-my-marker-GOLD ()
>  "Starting from anywhere in the file, find my marker GOLD its value
>   and location."
>  (interactive)
>  (save-excursion
>    (save-match-data
>      ;; Starting from the end of the accessible region, find GOLD.
>      (goto-char (point-max))
>      ;; a/ This value of this expression is discarded.
>      ;;    It turns out to be the same as "location" below,
>      ;;    so if you save it, you can avoid a call to ‘point’.
>      ;; b/ The optional args default to ‘nil’, and can be dropped.
>      (search-backward-regexp "GOLD=\\([0-9]+\\)\n" nil nil nil)
>
>      ;; In the following, i have deleted the eol comments, which
>      ;; obscure more than enlighten (on my small computer screen).
>
>      ;; You might consider using `((k0 . ,v0)
>      ;;                            (k1 . ,v1))
>      ;; for succinctness (note backquote and comma placement).
>      ;; An intermediate solution is to use ‘acons’.
>      (list
>       (list
>        :GOLD-value
>        ;; The ‘replace-regexp-in-string’ is not necessary.
>        ;; The initial regexp match (above) already sets the match
>        ;; data; you can use ‘(match-string 1)’ to retrieve it.
>        (string-to-number
>         (replace-regexp-in-string "GOLD=\\([0-9]+\\)\n" "\\1"  (match-string 0))))
>       (list
>        :GOLD-location
>        (point))))))
>
>   [Q] Are there any defects in this method of passing struct and what
>   improvements are possible ?
>
> All defects are misalignments of intention and implementation.
> If you don't know your intention clearly, it's easy for a defect
> to creep in.  Improvements, likewise, depend on intention and pov.
>
>       Specifically, are there ways to reduce verbosity without using cl
>   or staying purely in elisp ?
>
> You can use shorter variable names.  You can make your program
> less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented.
>
>   [Q] Is there a way to avoid lengthy calling statement like
>         (car (assoc-default :GOLD-value    GOLD )
>       inside let,
>
>       since the first argument of let is an alist of the form
>            ((sym1 val1) (sym2 val2))
>

OK lets take the suggestion below and show me how it works with my case ?

> You need the ‘car’ because you do ‘(list k v)’.
> If you use ‘(cons k v)’, then you do not need the ‘car’.

What I have is

(list (list k1 v1) (list k2 v2))

Now, kindly show me where I put the car to get both of these uniformly
communicated outside of the function to another function ? Later in
some cases I may have (k3 v3) pair !!!

>
>   [Q] Is there a way to using plists for return from find-my-marker-GOLD
>       and utilize in the user function test-GOLD
>
> Yes, but probably you will want to avoid plists.
>

Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Stefan Monnier]

> There was no reply from the help mailing list and this is very

That's because the question is completely incomprehensible.  When you
ask a question, always assume your readers are dimwits, and explain
every detail of what you're trying to do, rather than just spitting what
you're doing and assume people will understand.


        Stefan

Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> There was no reply from the help mailing list and this is very
>
> That's because the question is completely incomprehensible.  When you
> ask a question, always assume your readers are dimwits, and explain
> every detail of what you're trying to do, rather than just spitting what
> you're doing and assume people will understand.
>
>
>        Stefan
>

flame bait ignored :))))

The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!!

==============================================================
OK lets take the suggestion below and show me how it works with my case ?


> You need the ‘car’ because you do ‘(list k v)’.
> If you use ‘(cons k v)’, then you do not need the ‘car’.


What I have is

(list (list k1 v1) (list k2 v2))

Now, kindly show me where I put the car to get both of these uniformly
communicated outside of the function to another function ? Later in
some cases I may have (k3 v3) pair !!!


==============================================================

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Chad Brown]

On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Fren Zeee wrote:

> The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!!

Even with the CAPITAL LETTERS and the TRIPLE EXCLAMATION
POINTS!!!, I still have no idea what you're trying to accomplish.

Perhaps you would be helped by evaluating both of these in emacs:

	(pp (list 1 2))
	(pp (cons 1 2))

or perhaps:

	(pp (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4)))
	(pp (list (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4) (cons 5 6)))

I say `perhaps', because I don't really know what you're trying to 
accomplish.

I hope that helps,
*Chad

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Chad Brown <yandros@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Fren Zeee wrote:
>
>> The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!!
>
> Even with the CAPITAL LETTERS and the TRIPLE EXCLAMATION
> POINTS!!!, I still have no idea what you're trying to accomplish.
>
> Perhaps you would be helped by evaluating both of these in emacs:
>
>        (pp (list 1 2))
>        (pp (cons 1 2))
>
> or perhaps:
>
>        (pp (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4)))
>        (pp (list (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4) (cons 5 6)))
>
> I say `perhaps', because I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish.

Its in the title
How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

> I hope that helps,
> *Chad

Yes it helped, but I cant honestly see the difference between
(a . b)  <--- from cons
and
(a b)    <--- from list

both seem to be dotted pair although the dot is implicit in the second.

We are getting to the heart of the thing, ie concept, although the
problem is solved in that I have the answer


(assoc-default 1 (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4) (list 5 6)))
------>  (2)  so I need xtra car verbose
(assoc-default 1 (list (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4) (cons 5 6)))    ------>
2    so I dont need xtra car


Mercifully, the earlier flame-bait was ignored.

Thanks Chad.


P.S.
Now, lets see if you or someone can look at other points mentioned by
Thien to remove the verbosity such as below or Thien's first reply of
Dec 6.

() Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com>

() Mon, 6 Dec 2010 07:41:21 -0800


  > less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented.

  I would certainly need a toy example or even ask for taking this
  example and showing me how to do it. I am not familiar with this
  table-oriented approach.


I would rather help you understand those words than show you how to
apply them.  (This is more work for both of us, initially, but less
work in the long run.)  What do you think of when you read them?

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

Let me sharpen my question on the conceptual issue. Note, the original
question has split into several ways and we are just on this one for
now in this reply of mine.

What's the meaning of (cons 1 2) versus (list 1 2) ?

cons expects the second argument to be a list and inserts the first into it.

Thus (cons 1 2) did not make sense to me. Perhaps, after a few years I
have forgotten or dulled in my concepts.

(list 1 2) <=> (cons 1 (cons 2 () ))

Anyway, I can move forward with this unless you or anyone has
something enlightening to add and someone does come and start telling
me I need to go and take a class in lisp.

We can move to the

 -----------------> less piecewise-constructive and more
table-oriented. <-------------------

Franz Xe

>
> Yes it helped, but I cant honestly see the difference between
> (a . b)  <--- from cons
> and
> (a b)    <--- from list
>
> both seem to be dotted pair although the dot is implicit in the second.
>
> We are getting to the heart of the thing, ie concept, although the
> problem is solved in that I have the answer
>
>
> (assoc-default 1 (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4) (list 5 6)))
> ------>  (2)  so I need xtra car verbose
> (assoc-default 1 (list (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4) (cons 5 6)))    ------>
> 2    so I dont need xtra car
>

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Chong Yidong]

Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:

> cons expects the second argument to be a list

No it doesn't.

Please refer to An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp, Chapter 7,
"car, cdr, cons: Fundamental Functions".

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> wrote:
> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> cons expects the second argument to be a list
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> Please refer to An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp, Chapter 7,
> "car, cdr, cons: Fundamental Functions".
>

Thanks a lot !

You can now see that I have read the link and highlighting shows I have
understood the point. Now, lets get moving with the rest of the ideas of
Thien-Thi .


http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-lisp-intro/html_mono/emacs-lisp-intro.html#cons


     (cons 'pine '(fir oak maple))

After evaluating this list, you will see

     (pine fir oak maple)

appear in the echo area. cons causes the creation of a new list in which the
element is followed by the elements of the original list.

We often say that `cons puts a new element at the beginning of a list; it
attaches or pushes elements onto the list', but this phrasing can be
misleading, since cons does not change an existing list, but creates a new
one.

Build a list

cons must have a list to attach to.9 You cannot start from absolutely
nothing. If you are building a list, you need to provide at least an empty
list at the beginning. Here is a series of cons expressions that build up a
list of flowers. If you are reading this in Info in GNU Emacs, you can
evaluate each of the expressions in the usual way; the value is printed in
this text after '=>', which you may read as `evaluates to'.

    (cons 'buttercup ())
         => (buttercup)

    (cons 'daisy '(buttercup))
         => (daisy buttercup)

 The second example, (cons 'daisy '(buttercup)) constructs a new, two
element list by putting daisy in front of buttercup;

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Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Stefan Monnier]

> The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!!

Great, I'm glad you're satisfied with the answers you got,


        Stefan

Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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I am only satisfied with first part. There are more challenging questions
still there. Please read the two or three of my posts before you entered the
conversation.

I am not satisfied with the slow pace however, so kindly look at it.
Cheers :)))

Franz
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>wrote:

> > The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!!
>
> Great, I'm glad you're satisfied with the answers you got,
>
>
>        Stefan
>

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Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[PJ Weisberg]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am only satisfied with first part. There are more challenging questions
> still there. Please read the two or three of my posts before you entered the
> conversation.

I think your other question was, "What was Thien-Thi talking about
when he said 'less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented'?

Here's my guess.  Keeping in mind that I have no idea what you're
trying to accomplish, I would suggest that instead of having functions
like find-my-marker-GOLD, find-my-marker-SILVER, and the like, you
just start out the file with something like:

GOLD 1000
SILVER 5000
COPPER 28000
CHEESEBURGERS 2
END

And then read those line-by-line to construct your alist or whatever.

Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[joakim]

PJ Weisberg <pj@irregularexpressions.net> writes:

> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am only satisfied with first part. There are more challenging questions
>> still there. Please read the two or three of my posts before you entered the
>> conversation.
>
> I think your other question was, "What was Thien-Thi talking about
> when he said 'less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented'?
>
> Here's my guess.  Keeping in mind that I have no idea what you're
> trying to accomplish, I would suggest that instead of having functions
> like find-my-marker-GOLD, find-my-marker-SILVER, and the like, you
> just start out the file with something like:
>
> GOLD 1000
> SILVER 5000
> COPPER 28000
> CHEESEBURGERS 2
> END
>
> And then read those line-by-line to construct your alist or whatever.

I also fail to comprehend what this thread is about, but could this
maybe prove useful?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity

Lisp data and code look alike. The lisp data structure is convenient at
every level of the language. Lisp as a dataformat on disk is thus also
convenient. 

-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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Thien-Thi was on the right track and understood the problem well as his
reply indicate as far as I understood it. He has disappeared or refusing to
show up. probably this nourishes the ego of such geeks.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 10:59 PM, PJ Weisberg <pj@irregularexpressions.net>wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am only satisfied with first part. There are more challenging questions
> > still there. Please read the two or three of my posts before you entered
> the
> > conversation.
>
> I think your other question was, "What was Thien-Thi talking about
> when he said 'less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented'?
>
> Here's my guess.  Keeping in mind that I have no idea what you're
> trying to accomplish, I would suggest that instead of having functions
> like find-my-marker-GOLD, find-my-marker-SILVER, and the like, you
> just start out the file with something like:
>
> GOLD 1000
> SILVER 5000
> COPPER 28000
> CHEESEBURGERS 2
> END
>
> And then read those line-by-line to construct your alist or whatever.
>
>

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Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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Thien-Thi was on the right track and understood the problem well as his
reply indicate as far as I understood it. He has disappeared or refusing to
show up. probably this nourishes the ego of such geeks.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:18 PM, <joakim@verona.se> wrote:

>  PJ Weisberg <pj@irregularexpressions.net> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I am only satisfied with first part. There are more challenging
> questions
> >> still there. Please read the two or three of my posts before you entered
> the
> >> conversation.
> >
> > I think your other question was, "What was Thien-Thi talking about
> > when he said 'less piecewise-constructive and more table-oriented'?
> >
> > Here's my guess.  Keeping in mind that I have no idea what you're
> > trying to accomplish, I would suggest that instead of having functions
> > like find-my-marker-GOLD, find-my-marker-SILVER, and the like, you
> > just start out the file with something like:
> >
> > GOLD 1000
> > SILVER 5000
> > COPPER 28000
> > CHEESEBURGERS 2
> > END
> >
> > And then read those line-by-line to construct your alist or whatever.
>
> I also fail to comprehend what this thread is about, but could this
> maybe prove useful?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity
>
> Lisp data and code look alike. The lisp data structure is convenient at
> every level of the language. Lisp as a dataformat on disk is thus also
> convenient.
>
> --
> Joakim Verona
>
>

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Re: Fwd: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@xemacs.org>wrote:

> Fren Zeee writes:
>  > Thien-Thi was on the right track and understood the problem well as his
>  > reply indicate as far as I understood it. He has disappeared or refusing
> to
>  > show up. probably this nourishes the ego of such geeks.
>
> You would be best advised to stop trolling.  Everybody on this list
> knows how to use a killfile; by now you're in many.
>

"troll" is a prejudicial terminology, worse than anti-semitism, anti-gypsies
...  and reserved for hating those who need help by those who got some
chance via university or company courses --- all ultimately from tax payer
money to learn ...

Ask Robert Stallman if emacs is based on lisp and if McCarthy invented it
from tax payer funded government grants to MIT or if it rained from moon ?

Be clear, precise and objective in your replies. I challenge you to rebut me
on this point of funding !!! Your phd is most likely funded from tax payer
money and even if you did TA ship, the infra-structure is public funding ...


Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...

just get it.

Franz Xe

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Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Miles Bader]

Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
> Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...

How about "netkook"?

Sometimes that's the most accurate term.

-Miles

-- 
Dictionary, n.  A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of
a language and making it hard and inelastic. This dictionary, however,
is a most useful work.

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
> > Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...
>
> How about "netkook"?
>
> Sometimes that's the most accurate term.
>
> -Miles

Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS because
you wasted bandwidth on useless destructive flaming than constructive reply
to the issue of the thread.

It has no relevance to the thread.

Turnbull is a victim of bad tutoring from the internet at the hands of
netkooks themselves who have ingrained this prejudice in him.

I was trying to analytically correct him and you too.

It is well known that those who learnt with difficulty or some other causes
of malicious psychology, practice the same meanness to impede the path of
others and use various tactics to derail the thread by diversionary tactics
of flaming etc.

But dispassionate analysis can defeat it or exhibit the lack of information
when its presence is actually claimed.

Lets get moving with the issue of this thread from where this diversion
started.
Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or
plist ?


> --
> Dictionary, n.  A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of
> a language and making it hard and inelastic. This dictionary, however,
> is a most useful work.

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Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

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Lets get moving with the issue of this thread from _BEFORE_ where this
diversion started.
Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or
plist ?

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> > Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
> > > Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...
> >
> > How about "netkook"?
> >
> > Sometimes that's the most accurate term.
> >
> > -Miles
>
> Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS
> because you wasted bandwidth on useless destructive flaming than
> constructive reply to the issue of the thread.
>
> It has no relevance to the thread.
>
> Turnbull is a victim of bad tutoring from the internet at the hands of
> netkooks themselves who have ingrained this prejudice in him.
>
> I was trying to analytically correct him and you too.
>
> It is well known that those who learnt with difficulty or some other causes
> of malicious psychology, practice the same meanness to impede the path of
> others and use various tactics to derail the thread by diversionary tactics
> of flaming etc.
>
> But dispassionate analysis can defeat it or exhibit the lack of information
> when its presence is actually claimed.
>
> Lets get moving with the issue of this thread from where this diversion
> started.
>  Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist
> or plist ?
>
>
> > --
>   > Dictionary, n.  A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth
> of
> > a language and making it hard and inelastic. This dictionary, however,
> > is a most useful work.
>
>
>

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Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Jay Belanger]

Given that you have used this list as your personal tutoring service and
have unjustly criticized the people on this list, perhaps you shouldn't
be the one to lecture on etiquette.

> Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS

Your over the top language isn't helping, either.

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[David Kastrup]

Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
>> > Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...
>>
>> How about "netkook"?
>
> Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS
> because you wasted bandwidth on useless destructive flaming than
> constructive reply to the issue of the thread. 
>
> It has no relevance to the thread.
>
> Turnbull is a victim of bad tutoring from the internet at the hands of
> netkooks themselves who have ingrained this prejudice in him.

Calling somebody only by his last name (without either title or given
name) when he is participating in the conversation, is considered quite
rude in the English-speaking world.

> I was trying to analytically correct him and you too.

Now you are insulting Freud as well.

I consider both Miles Bader as well as Stephen Turnbull perfectly
capable of forming their own opinion when somebody spouts nonsense.  One
does not need any "netkooks" or other outside agents to form a qualified
opinion about the things you consider fit for writing.

They speak for themselves.  And are the only things speaking for you in
a written medium.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:45 PM, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
> >> > Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...
> >>
> >> How about "netkook"?
> >
> > Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS
> > because you wasted bandwidth on useless destructive flaming than
> > constructive reply to the issue of the thread.
> >
> > It has no relevance to the thread.
> >
> > Turnbull is a victim of bad tutoring from the internet at the hands of
> > netkooks themselves who have ingrained this prejudice in him.
>
> Calling somebody only by his last name (without either title or given
> name) when he is participating in the conversation, is considered quite
> rude in the English-speaking world.

well thats not a universal convention and quite a contrived argument.
I would not stoop to his level and call him a troll which is a hate
terminology.

I think your assessment is based more on his utility to contribute and
the small network where richard stallman has shared summarized
knowledge.

we know that the original model was to give code but keep the
documentation emaciated. Its written in a machiavellian style, where
you have to already know it to understand it. Thats why it takes a
long learning curve.

You are a prime writer on comp.text.tex where donald knuth has also
given a certain tex manual as a tex file which has to be understood to
be able to latex it ... i am just trying to explain what certain
"fathers" have propagated a disease in the community by example and
others imitating it.

> > I was trying to analytically correct him and you too.
>
> Now you are insulting Freud as well.

lol

> I consider both Miles Bader as well as Stephen Turnbull perfectly
> capable of forming their own opinion when somebody spouts nonsense.  One
> does not need any "netkooks" or other outside agents to form a qualified
> opinion about the things you consider fit for writing.
>
> They speak for themselves.  And are the only things speaking for you in
> a written medium.
>

Your refusal to turn this into constructive and focus on the subject
of the thread says more. Besides, your past record of giving cynical
replies on various groups is long and people know it.

Again, i challenge you to revert to the original topic of the thread.

Re: How to remove verbosity from the data passing mechanism using alist or plist ?

[Fren Zeee]

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:45 PM, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Fren Zeee <frenzeee@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> > Troll is a hate terminology. Dont ever use it ...
>> >>
>> >> How about "netkook"?
>> >
>> > Regardless, of your prejudice, its a hate term and you are MALICIOUS
>> > because you wasted bandwidth on useless destructive flaming than
>> > constructive reply to the issue of the thread.
>> >
>> > It has no relevance to the thread.
>> >
>> > Turnbull is a victim of bad tutoring from the internet at the hands of
>> > netkooks themselves who have ingrained this prejudice in him.
>>
>> Calling somebody only by his last name (without either title or given
>> name) when he is participating in the conversation, is considered quite
>> rude in the English-speaking world.
>
> well thats not a universal convention and quite a contrived argument.
> I would not stoop to his level and call him a troll which is a hate
> terminology.
>
> I think your assessment is based more on his utility to contribute and
> the small network where richard stallman has shared summarized
> knowledge.
>
> we know that the original model was to give code but keep the
> documentation emaciated. Its written in a machiavellian style, where
> you have to already know it to understand it. Thats why it takes a
> long learning curve.
>
> You are a prime writer on comp.text.tex where donald knuth has also
> given a certain tex manual as a tex file which has to be understood to
> be able to latex it ... i am just trying to explain what certain
> "fathers" have propagated a disease in the community by example and
> others imitating it.
>
>> > I was trying to analytically correct him and you too.
>>
>> Now you are insulting Freud as well.
>
> lol
>
>> I consider both Miles Bader as well as Stephen Turnbull perfectly
>> capable of forming their own opinion when somebody spouts nonsense.  One
>> does not need any "netkooks" or other outside agents to form a qualified
>> opinion about the things you consider fit for writing.

Get reading help.

I did not introduce the term "netkook" in this thread. Its Miles Bader.

Infact, every single derogatory label that has been introduced in this
thread is by someone other than myself.

All I am asking for the resumption of and completion of the ideas
advanced by Thien-Thi towards the subject of discussion in this
thread.

Good usage of the language would help us become a contributor which I
earnestly aspire to be.

Remember, gnu software movement was about sharing source code and
comments (and explanations and good programming ideas) are part of the
same. Its not tutoring service. Those withholding the simple reply are
the ones dragging this unnecessarily. I have seen development threads
where there is a question like this. Someone wanted a code review
which begs the question of checking and giving ideas.

Cheers,
Franz Xe



>> They speak for themselves.  And are the only things speaking for you in
>> a written medium.
>>
>
> Your refusal to turn this into constructive and focus on the subject
> of the thread says more. Besides, your past record of giving cynical
> replies on various groups is long and people know it.
>
> Again, i challenge you to revert to the original topic of the thread.
>