unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
To: Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 08:35:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> (Payas Relekar's message of "Sun, 25 Sep 2022 08:22:03 +0530")

Hi Payas,

Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:

> From your mail, below were the motivators for change:

Re-reading it, the list was a mix of (1) things to be done for the
switch to be sensible (and that will be boosted if the switch happens)
and (2) possible nice outcomes.

> - Let's stabilize editing standards around the org.org file.

(=> 1) Something that we did before the switch.

> - Let's test org capabilities against a giant .org file.

(=> 2) Yes, this can lead to enhancements in Org like it did recently,
but I don't think this is a good reason enough to justify the switch.

> - Let's make `C-x 4 a' do something useful in an .org section.

(=> 1) Also something now available.

> - Let's write more non-emacs parsers and exporters.

(=> 2) This was an illusion: I don't think projects like Pandoc use
the org-manual.org file to test whether they are good parsers and
exporters.  For a good reason: nobody really needs to use Pandoc for
parsing/exporting the Org manual.

> - Let's see if we have more contributions to the manual and if
>   we really solved a problem here.

(=> 2) This didn't happen.

> While you're best to judge the number of contributions, #1 and #2, or
> the dogfooding opportunities provided by the switch are immense.
>
> One doesn't occasionally run into org documents the size of org.org. It
> has already resulted in gc enhancements as it was slowing down Emacs
> build and was optimized. I'll say that alone is a benefit worth keeping.

I'm not convinced: slowing down Emacs build to create opportunities
for enhancing the Org parser and exporter does not strike me as a good
reason.

Respecting the GNU standards about manuals ("The preferred document
format for the GNU system is the Texinfo formatting language.") and
the recent discussions provide good reasons for switching back to
.texi, if all maintainers agree.

> There is also more progress being made on non-emacs parsers[0][1], and
> perhaps we can reach out if they find org.org useful. Generally
> speaking, these projects are even smaller (number of contributors-wise)
> than org-mode, but a shared burden is always nicer.
>
> [0]: https://github.com/nvim-orgmode/orgmode
> [1]: https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser/blob/master/resources/org.ebnf

Of course, feel free to contact them, but why would they want to try
solving the challenge for exporting org-manual.org?  They can create
any .org file with the complexity they desire if they need it.  Also,
independently from this discussion, _we_ should certainly provide an
example document containing alls things a parser/exporter should be
able to handle.

All best,

-- 
 Bastien



  reply	other threads:[~2022-09-25  6:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 178+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-09-25  2:52 Org mode and Emacs Payas Relekar
2022-09-25  6:35 ` Bastien [this message]
2022-09-25  7:05   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-25  7:47     ` Bastien
2022-09-25  8:01       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-25  8:22       ` Bastien Guerry
2022-09-25  8:01   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-25 19:47     ` Tim Cross
2022-09-26  6:12       ` Bastien
2022-09-26  6:35         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  6:57           ` Bastien
2023-08-18 17:09             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-18 18:31               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-18 18:49                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-18 19:11                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-18 19:31                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19  5:51                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19  9:04                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19  9:26                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19  9:44                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 10:19                               ` Po Lu
2023-08-19 10:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19 10:48                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 10:42                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19 10:54                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  1:12                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-21  7:56                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-23  2:12                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-23  9:44                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 11:01                       ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 11:12                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 12:49                           ` Po Lu
2023-08-23 17:18                             ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 17:47                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:02                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:08                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:18                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:36                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:46                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:50                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  1:11                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-23 16:53                           ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 17:56                             ` Tassilo Horn
2023-08-24 11:52                     ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 17:51                       ` T.V Raman
2023-08-24 17:55                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 18:35                           ` T.V Raman
2023-08-25  1:16                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-25 11:45                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-25  1:14                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-25  9:04                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-25 18:56                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-26 10:46                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-31  2:09                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31  8:50                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26  2:04                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-26  5:50                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-26 16:49                               ` Jose E. Marchesi
2023-08-26 16:56                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 20:28                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-26 20:58                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-30  8:11                                       ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-27  1:32                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-27  8:32                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28  1:32                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-29  8:29                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-01  1:18                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-01  6:46                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-04  1:32                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 22:05                                                 ` Juergen Fenn
2023-09-05 11:04                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06  0:58                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 11:29                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 12:33                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 12:43                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 12:49                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 12:54                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 13:04                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 13:10                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 13:33                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 15:28                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 13:08                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 13:20                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 15:25                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 16:12                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 16:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 11:11                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-10  0:22                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  0:37                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  9:36                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-10  0:22                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  0:38                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-30  8:11                                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-09-02  1:50                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-02  8:19                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-02  8:30                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-27  1:32                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-27  8:35                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28  1:32                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 10:04                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 11:15                                         ` Yuri Khan
2023-08-28 11:21                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-31  2:09                                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31  8:53                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-04  1:33                                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-30  8:14                                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-30  8:32                                     ` Po Lu
2023-08-27  1:33                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-26  8:24           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-26  8:32           ` Jean Louis
2022-09-26  9:54             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26 11:04               ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-27 16:17               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-30  3:41                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26 12:10       ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-26  3:02   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  5:37     ` Po Lu
2022-09-26  5:44       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-26  6:20       ` Bastien Guerry
2022-09-26 13:58         ` T.V Raman
2022-09-26 16:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-26  6:36       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  6:18     ` Bastien
2022-09-26  6:29       ` Ihor Radchenko
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-06-13  1:47 Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Christopher Dimech
2022-06-13  2:47 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-13  5:04   ` Christopher Dimech
2022-06-13  5:22     ` Org mode and Emacs Werner LEMBERG
2022-06-13  5:59       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-04 17:27 Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-05  8:38 ` Michael Albinus
2022-06-05  8:51   ` Po Lu
2022-06-05 10:26     ` Tassilo Horn
2022-06-05 11:15       ` Michael Albinus
2022-06-06  0:19         ` Tim Cross
2022-06-06 11:33           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-06 13:57             ` Tim Cross
2022-06-06 16:02               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-07  6:14                 ` Tim Cross
2022-06-07 16:02                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-07 18:14                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 18:26                       ` Org mode and Emacs Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-07 18:48                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 18:54                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-07 19:38                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 20:54                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-07 22:10                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Tim Cross
2022-06-08  6:06                         ` Org mode and Emacs Visuwesh
2022-06-08  6:58                           ` Tim Cross
2022-06-09 22:31                         ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-09 23:10                           ` Tim Cross
2022-06-10  5:59                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-10  6:20                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-10  6:44                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-11  4:49                                   ` Tim Cross
2022-06-11  6:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12  9:05                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  9:18                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 10:04                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 10:15                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 10:38                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 14:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 15:31                                                   ` Org mode and Emacs Colin Baxter
2022-06-15  5:19                                                   ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15  6:46                                                     ` Org mode and Emacs David Engster
2022-06-15  7:36                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15 13:01                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  5:36                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16  5:58                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  9:55                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15 13:34                                                         ` David Engster
2022-06-16  6:50                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16 10:21                                                             ` David Engster
2022-06-15 12:50                                                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  7:03                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16  8:13                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16 11:12                                                           ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-06-16 12:58                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16 16:59                                                               ` Org mode and Emacs Stefan Monnier
2022-06-16  3:19                                                     ` Pankaj Jangid
2022-06-16  4:03                                                       ` Visuwesh
2022-09-25  2:14                                                   ` Bastien
2022-06-12 22:38                                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-13  4:38                                         ` Org mode and Emacs Werner LEMBERG
2022-06-12  0:42                                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  1:27                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-14 13:18                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-14 13:38                                             ` Org mode and Emacs Robert Pluim
2022-06-12  0:42                             ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  1:39                               ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  2:40                                 ` Org mode and Emacs T.V Raman
2022-06-12  1:45                               ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  2:15                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  2:36                                   ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  3:06                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  3:39                                       ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  4:43                                         ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  5:08                                           ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  5:20                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  5:27                                             ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  5:53                                           ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  6:56                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 18:29                                               ` David Masterson
2022-06-14  5:09                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-19 23:48                                                   ` David Masterson
2022-06-20  0:03                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-20  0:24                                                       ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  3:28                                     ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  2:50                                   ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  3:54                                     ` chad
2022-06-12  5:04                                       ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  7:02                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  6:21                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12  6:57                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-08 13:22                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-08 14:23                         ` Org mode and Emacs Stefan Monnier
2022-06-08 15:08                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                           ` Richard Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org \
    --to=bzg@gnu.org \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=relekarpayas@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).