From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>
Cc: gregory@heytings.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Unboxed package manager
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 08:46:23 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83lejo55j4.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAM=F=bCw7wO7P=W_AHuOKqQ0C7czQvvCaCJb-mnM5AhKr13kbg@mail.gmail.com> (message from Lynn Winebarger on Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:22:55 -0400)
> From: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:22:55 -0400
> Cc: gregory@heytings.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 10:42 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> > Why would someone want all 300 of them? Some of them even contradict
> > each other, in that they implement similar features in very different
> > ways.
>
> You're correct, many of them do address similar issues and should not
> be "turned on" simultaneously. As long as they are well-behaved and
> able to be switched on and off reliably, though, there's no reason to
> not have them simultaneously installed and loaded if the user is not
> dedicated to minimizing resource consumption.
I didn't say people should not be able to do that. They should, and
they are. I just said it isn't a reasonable thing to do, and thus
doesn't justify our jumping through hoops to cater for it.
> > > Note I'm just installing
> > > these packages, not actually loading any of them directly.
> >
> > Exactly. So this is entirely theoretical use case, not a real one.
>
> I was just noting that the performance hit comes from merely
> installing the package (and enlarging the load-path), not from loading
> it.
And I was just noting that doing such a thing cannot be of any
practical interest to us, unless it causes severe bugs in Emacs, like
crashes etc.
> > As I already said: you can simply load each package by its explicit
> > absolute name. Poof! problem disappeared.
>
> You're incorrect, unless you can ensure required system packages are
> all explicitly loaded in order. SImply specifying the full path of
> one will not prevent it searching for its dependencies.
I obviously assumed (and I think I even said that explicitly) that the
directories of those packages shouldn't be added to load-path;
_instead_, they should be loaded by their explicit file names,
including leading directories. _Then_ the problem with load-path will
not happen.
As for the order of loading packages -- that problem exists anyway,
and I believe use-package, which is now part of Emacs, is capable of
making the solution a bit easier. In any case, solving that is
basically a one-time issue, when you first install a new package.
> That said, I don't advocate adding that complexity when rationalizing
> the way packages are installed is an effective way to avoid enlarging
> the load-path in the first place. The number of packages whose design
> really requires enlarging the load-path (just as a user of the
> package, not in "development mode") is tiny in my experience. realgud
> and its extensions are in fact the only ones that come to mind,
> because of the use of load-relative. Others may be tricky to handle
> automatically, but there's nothing in their design that fundamentally
> requires enlarging the load path - a few manual modifications are
> usually enough to handle those cases, which are fairly small in number
> (magit being one of them due to the version function expecting to find
> the package installed in its own directory or to be able to contact
> the main git repository).
So what exactly are you asking for? Is it some change in package.el?
If so, what change?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-23 6:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-03-20 1:18 Unboxed package manager Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-20 6:30 ` Yuan Fu
2023-03-20 8:55 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-20 9:09 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-20 15:25 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-03-20 16:12 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-20 16:53 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-03-20 18:11 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2023-03-21 1:40 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-22 11:17 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2023-03-22 14:31 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-22 23:39 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-21 19:06 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-03-21 19:10 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-03-21 19:57 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-03-21 20:06 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-03-21 0:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-21 0:25 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-21 1:55 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-21 10:36 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-21 10:52 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-21 13:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-21 13:33 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-21 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-21 14:20 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-03-21 17:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-22 0:48 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-22 14:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-22 22:22 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-23 6:46 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2023-03-23 13:30 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-24 17:54 ` chad
2023-03-26 1:51 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-23 1:44 ` David Masterson
2023-03-23 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-22 7:29 ` tomas
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