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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>
Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: project.el semantics
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 02:47:33 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <56429025.3070008@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86h9ktah9x.fsf@stephe-leake.org>

On 11/10/2015 07:36 PM, Stephen Leake wrote:

>> Although again, what will the project dependencies be used for, is
>> still an open question for me.
>
> The general rule is: if we don't have a good use case, don't add code.

So I'm not adding it. Just keeping that possibility in mind, and hence 
keeping the word "dependency" free.

>> Another thing you might want to do - replace some term across the
>> project (using M-x project-find-regexp and then M-x
>> xref-query-replace). If we were to show its occurrences in library
>> files as well, that would be a waste of user's and computer's time.
>
> You can't allow for all possible user desires by providing different
> path functions at this level.

Indeed, I can't account for every variation. So I service just the ones 
that seem most important to me at this point.

> Instead, there should just be one path, that includes all files that the
> user might want to do anything with. Then, when the user actually
> invokes a function to do something, they can provide a predicate if they
> want a subset of that.

How would they provide the predicate when calling the command 
interactively? Especially a predicate that would distinguish between 
project roots and library roots.

> You have to rely on common definitions; "dependency" is one (although
> apparently not for you, sigh).

"outside" is definitely a more common word for me than "dependency". *shrug*

> "outside" is a common English word, but "outside the project" is very
> fuzzy.

You're free to suggest another word that means "not inside of any of the 
project roots".

>> Since we're discussing project-library-roots here, I'm not sure which
>> improvement you mean. How about simply replacing "the list of
>> directories outside of the project" with "the list of directories
>> outside of the project roots"?
>
> I suggest "not included in" rather than "outside".

That implies the (not (member ...)) semantics, rather than (not 
(file-in-directory-p ...)), which is what `project-subtract-directories' 
actually does.

And "not member" semantics seems pointless to me here; we might as well 
allow project-library-roots to include project-roots element, if the 
consumer will have to call `project-combine-directories' on them together.

Having "library roots" entirely outside the project roots, however, 
makes a lot of sense to me intuitively: if they're inside, they are a 
part of the project anyway. What kind of use would we have for such 
elements?

>> Because if we describe it in terms of dependencies, a dependency might
>> be checked out inside a project root subdirectory in certain
>> configurations (maybe with an appropriate .gitignore entry, maybe
>> not). In that case, though, we probably don't want to have
>> project-library-roots include it.
>
> Why not? We allow subdirectories in the same path in general (ie
> `load-path'); that's what project-prune-directories is for.

Note that neither `elisp--xref-find-references', not 
`etags--xref-find-references' call `project-prune-directories' (or 
`project-combine-directories', as it's called now).

>> We can add "So if the project has dependencies which should be edited
>> together with it, they should go here as well." to the third paragraph
>> of the project-roots docstring.
>
> That would be good.

Would you be able to give an example of a project file that lists 
dependencies like that, that "should be edited together" with the 
current project? It would fit the manual well.

>> Guess that might go into the manual instead. I've seen someone state
>> that it's okay for the manual to have redundancies.
>
> Ok, please start the manual. That would help a lot.

If you're waiting for me to start, you might have to wait a while. I 
haven't written a manual in my life (not in Texinfo, or in English).

If you or someone else add the file with structure outline some 
placeholders a la <write XX here>, that would speed the process 
considerably.

>> It's a... semantic-symref-tool implementation of it, actually. Which
>> has no relation to Semantic grammars, its tags, or etc.
>
> Ok, so xref-semantic-symref-find-references, or
> xref-symref-find-references.

semantic-symref is a command that displays references in a tree-like UI, 
and it uses Semantic on the way to do that. xref-collect-references doesn't.

I don't really know a good name for it. 
xref-collect-references-using-any-cedet-indexing-tool-we-can-find?

It's not a user-level command, though, so we can get away with just a 
mediocre name.

> But if I normally use global, I want xref to use it. And I know how to
> deal with all those issues. Although some details in the manual would
> help.

Yes, the manual could be the answer.

> I could write a new global xref backend, but it's better to reuse
> existing code.

Does lisp/cedet/cedet-global.el have code that will help us with 
implementing "find definitions" using Global?

> Unless you are proposing to rewrite symref to be more consistent with
> xref.

Maybe. Depending on what you exactly mean by that. I'd rather rewrite 
the "tools" CEDET code to be more flexible, for different uses.

>> IMO, it's more important to have the distinction between "project
>> roots" and "project library roots" in "find regexp" than in "find
>> references".
>
> But you don't provide any code that allows the user to take advantage of
> that distinction. So it how important can it be?

What code?

We have both project-find-regexp and project-or-libraries-find-regexp 
already, and I find the difference between them useful in practice.

> No, I would not expect vc-project to know anything about project files.
>
> I would write a new project backend that knows about some set of project
> files.

Again, how many project backends will that be? One for every distinct 
language combination?

Basically, you position eliminates the need for 
project-library-roots-function, as it's used now. I think that we should 
create a better use for it, and do teach vc-project about library-roots 
for different project files, through it.



  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-11  0:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-15 20:23 find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-15 22:21 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  2:49   ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:26     ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:34       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:38       ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 12:56         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:37           ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 16:41             ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 16:59               ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 17:13                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 17:25               ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 21:01                 ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:45                   ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 16:08                     ` project.el semantics Stephen Leake
2015-09-19  0:17                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  1:47                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  7:11                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-08 13:07                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08 20:11                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09  9:10                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-09 13:27                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 18:15                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10  1:32                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  2:40                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 17:36                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:47                                       ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2015-11-11 10:27                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:21                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 16:48                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 17:03                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 17:22                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:46                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 22:30                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12  2:21                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 17:26                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 17:53                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:04                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:17                                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 18:26                                                               ` John Mastro
2015-11-12 23:37                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:50                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 22:41                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 22:14                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 23:26                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12  6:44                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 11:32                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 19:28                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 22:04                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-19  2:21                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-20 18:40                                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-21 10:03                                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-21 10:10                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-22  5:18                                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22  5:36                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22  5:43                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22  5:58                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 16:55                                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22 17:13                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 19:54                                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22 21:27                                                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-23  1:14                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23 22:04                                                                               ` Steinar Bang
2015-11-23 23:17                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23  7:43                                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-23 12:59                                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-16  4:06                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-16  6:52                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2015-12-28  4:20                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 22:04                                                                       ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-22 23:21                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23  2:06                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-22  5:32                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 22:16                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  0:58                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  1:07                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  1:18                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  1:40                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  3:23                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  6:00                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 10:54                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 14:21                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 23:41                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:56                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11  1:17                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  1:31                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11  9:55                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:30                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12  8:46                                                             ` Steinar Bang
2015-11-12 19:35                                                               ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  9:44                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:39                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 17:38                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 19:47                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  4:41     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 13:04       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-16 17:01         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 13:31       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:13         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 15:05           ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 16:58             ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:15               ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 17:14                 ` project.el semantics Stephen Leake
2015-09-19  0:08                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-19 12:07                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-09-19 12:40                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 17:04         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 21:11           ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:52             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-17  1:26           ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-17 18:09             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 17:07               ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-18 23:41                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-19  4:13                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-06  1:29                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07  4:52                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-07 17:09                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07  7:12                   ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-07 17:55                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07 18:26                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07 19:58                       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-07 21:12                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08 19:11                           ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-08 23:49                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-09 12:18                               ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-09 17:11                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  1:26                   ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-08  1:38                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  2:19                       ` find-file-project Richard Copley
2016-01-08 11:34                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  7:39                       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-19  6:15                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-19 14:20                           ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20  0:51                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20  1:32                               ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20  1:47                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20  2:25                                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20 15:40                                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 21:58                                       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20 22:12                                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 22:17                                           ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 22:26                                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 22:48                                               ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 22:50                                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 23:09                                                   ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 23:23                                                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 23:46                                                       ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 23:51                                                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21  0:08                                                           ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-21  0:21                                                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21  3:03                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21 13:46                                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-17 21:23                       ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-17 21:25                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-17 23:07                           ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-18  1:42                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  7:16   ` find-file-project Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-16 13:06     ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-16 13:40     ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:32       ` find-file-project Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-16 14:57       ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 17:03         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake

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