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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: project.el semantics
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:40:05 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55FD57A5.4030608@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86lhc2wr2m.fsf@stephe-leake.org>

On 09/19/2015 03:07 PM, Stephen Leake wrote:

> "purely recursive" means no element of the path is a subdirectory of
> another element.

Let's call it "non-redundant".

> It is quite possible for a project to have an include path like
> "root/include/dir1 root/include/dir1/dir2".

Yes.

>> I'm pretty sure that even if that were the case, it could be a
>> good-enough feature, just one with undesirable quirks.
>
> Not a good advertisement for the project API. If I saw that statement in
> the project user guide, I'd stop reading, and go learn about EDE.

Sure, EDE has no quirks at all.

> Failure to go to an include file would certainly be "undesireable". I
> don't think "quirk" is the right term, though; "bug" and "bad design"
> are more appropriate.

Why do you think "failure to go to an include file" would be among those 
quirks?

Rather, I would imagine that if #include didn't allow files in 
subdirectories, the main problem with the find-file-in-includes function 
that was implemented as if it did, would be that it would allow to go to 
*too* many files, not too few. So, false positives, not false negatives.

>>> That's an argument for providing project-flat-search-path (overkill for
>>> this use case, but not harmfull),
>>
>> I don't think it is.
>
> Interesting. First you admit that your approach is wrong, then you deny
> that another approach would work, without any proof.

Hence the word "think". But how would it help? Redundant or not, 
C_INCLUDE_PATH is "recursive" like I've described in the previous 
message. How would a "project-flat-search-path" relate to it?

>> I admit
>> returning redundant elements is not documented, but for now it's just
>> an idea, not something set in stone. Eventually it'll need to be
>> documented, whichever way the decision comes out.
>
> What's wrong with picking one now, and documenting that? That at least
> gives us a better defined base to start from.

On the one hand, project-search-path being non-redundant would be more 
useful for the currently implemented commands, as well as 
find-file-in-project.

One the other hand, if we add a second generic in the future, 
project-search-path seems like a better name for the *redundant* one of 
the two. Don't you think?

But changing this generic's semantics later might not be an option anymore.

>> 100% agreement, except for "options in the API to choose among the
>> different semantics". It's better to only have to deal with one
>> semantics, as long as the result can be just as powerful.
>
> Interesting; how to say "yes" and "no" in the same paragraph.

That's how I read that paragraph: "Sure, naturally, yeah... waaait a 
minute!"

>> The statement in parens above seems like a recipe for disaster. How
>> would a function know what the backend is including? Will it have to
>> provide different implementations for different backends? Remember,
>> we're striving for "backend-agnostic" here.
>
> Precisely my point;

...OK?

> I'm glad you agree. So why do you refuse to fix the
> documentation to be clear?

Because if we "fix" it that way now, we might decide that the matter is 
closed. Whereas a proper fix shouldn't be too hard, and with 
find-file-in-project implemented, find-file-in-includes would be just 
one step away.

> savannah Emacs git.

Fair enough. Somewhere in etc/?



  reply	other threads:[~2015-09-19 12:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-15 20:23 find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-15 22:21 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  2:49   ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:26     ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:34       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16  3:38       ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 12:56         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:37           ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 16:41             ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 16:59               ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 17:13                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 17:25               ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 21:01                 ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:45                   ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 16:08                     ` project.el semantics Stephen Leake
2015-09-19  0:17                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  1:47                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  7:11                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-08 13:07                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08 20:11                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09  9:10                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-09 13:27                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 18:15                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10  1:32                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  2:40                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 17:36                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:47                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 10:27                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:21                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 16:48                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 17:03                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 17:22                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:46                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 22:30                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12  2:21                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 17:26                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 17:53                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:04                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:17                                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 18:26                                                               ` John Mastro
2015-11-12 23:37                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 18:50                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 22:41                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 22:14                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 23:26                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12  6:44                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 11:32                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12 19:28                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 22:04                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-19  2:21                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-20 18:40                                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-21 10:03                                                           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-21 10:10                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-22  5:18                                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22  5:36                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22  5:43                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22  5:58                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 16:55                                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22 17:13                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 19:54                                                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-22 21:27                                                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-11-23  1:14                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23 22:04                                                                               ` Steinar Bang
2015-11-23 23:17                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23  7:43                                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-23 12:59                                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-16  4:06                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-12-16  6:52                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2015-12-28  4:20                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-22 22:04                                                                       ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-22 23:21                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-23  2:06                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-22  5:32                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-09 22:16                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  0:58                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  1:07                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  1:18                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  1:40                                         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10  3:23                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10  6:00                                             ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 10:54                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 14:21                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 23:41                                                 ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:56                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11  1:17                                                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  1:31                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11  9:55                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:30                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-12  8:46                                                             ` Steinar Bang
2015-11-12 19:35                                                               ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  9:44                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 13:39                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-10 17:38                                             ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-10 19:47                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  4:41     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 13:04       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-16 17:01         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 13:31       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:13         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 15:05           ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 16:58             ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:15               ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 17:14                 ` project.el semantics Stephen Leake
2015-09-19  0:08                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-19 12:07                     ` Stephen Leake
2015-09-19 12:40                       ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2015-09-16 17:04         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 21:11           ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-17 17:52             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-17  1:26           ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-17 18:09             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-18 17:07               ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-18 23:41                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-19  4:13                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-06  1:29                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07  4:52                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-07 17:09                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07  7:12                   ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-07 17:55                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07 18:26                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-07 19:58                       ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-07 21:12                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08 19:11                           ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-08 23:49                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-09 12:18                               ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2016-01-09 17:11                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  1:26                   ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-08  1:38                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  2:19                       ` find-file-project Richard Copley
2016-01-08 11:34                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-08  7:39                       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-19  6:15                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-19 14:20                           ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20  0:51                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20  1:32                               ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20  1:47                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20  2:25                                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20 15:40                                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 21:58                                       ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-20 22:12                                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 22:17                                           ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 22:26                                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 22:48                                               ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 22:50                                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 23:09                                                   ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 23:23                                                     ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-20 23:46                                                       ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-20 23:51                                                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21  0:08                                                           ` find-file-project Drew Adams
2016-01-21  0:21                                                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21  3:03                                 ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-21 13:46                                   ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2016-01-17 21:23                       ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-17 21:25                         ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2016-01-17 23:07                           ` find-file-project John Wiegley
2016-01-18  1:42                             ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16  7:16   ` find-file-project Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-16 13:06     ` find-file-project Stefan Monnier
2015-09-16 13:40     ` find-file-project Stephen Leake
2015-09-16 14:32       ` find-file-project Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-16 14:57       ` find-file-project Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-16 17:03         ` find-file-project Stephen Leake

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