Re: Backspacing into folded items

Re: Backspacing into folded items

[Andreas Röhler]

Hi,

posting forwarded herewith describes a design inconvenience, wich 
affects common hide-show- and outline-modes too.

As too different solutions have been proposed, let me suggest
"setting read-only property" rather than "use of a modification hook".

Setting hidden text read-only should be more simple, straitforward - as 
presumably hiding some code had some reasons.

Editing hidden code is an error, which should be signaled rather than 
cured via hook.


Andreas

--
https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode
https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/


Am 26.08.2010 00:28, schrieb Martin Pohlack:
> Hi David,
>
> On 25.08.2010 11:22, David Abrahams wrote:
>> I've gotten myself in trouble several times today by backspacing after
>> an org-link that ends a headline.  That's a typical pattern for
>> editing an org-link, right?  Well it turns out that if the item is
>> folded, then the backspace writes over the end of the un-folded item
>> but **appears to have no effect**, and you can easily hit backspace
>> several times to test your sanity before you realize that something is
>> wrong, badly corrupting your file.
>
> I have had similar such accidents, but not involving links.  You
> probably backspaced into the "..."?
>
>> Seems to me that attempts to edit a folded item should either:
>>
>> a) restrict changes to the item's headline, or
>> b) unfold the item and do nothing
>>
>> Is there a way to set that up?
>
> Just two quick ideas from me here:
> * You could add a modification hook to all hidden areas to unfold them
>    on modification, or
> * You could set the read-only property for all hidden areas.  This could
>    be setup at the same location where hiding is done.
>
> See also here:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/elisp/html_node/Special-Properties.html#Special-Properties
>
> I proposed a patch for image overlay which show a related problem here:
> http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/31/
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>



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Re: [Orgmode] Backspacing into folded items

[Lennart Borgman]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Andreas Röhler
<andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> posting forwarded herewith describes a design inconvenience, wich affects
> common hide-show- and outline-modes too.
>
> As too different solutions have been proposed, let me suggest
> "setting read-only property" rather than "use of a modification hook".
>
> Setting hidden text read-only should be more simple, straitforward - as
> presumably hiding some code had some reasons.


I recently filed a bug report about that hidden text in org-mode nodes
did not get visible when you start to edit them. It turned out I was
mistaken, I did not have reveal-mode on as I believed. However the
plan is to make reveal-mode default:

  http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=6950

How would making the text read-only or add a modification hook
interact with the kind of problem reported in the bug above?


> Editing hidden code is an error, which should be signaled rather than cured
> via hook.
>
>
> Andreas
>
> --
> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode
> https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/
>
>
> Am 26.08.2010 00:28, schrieb Martin Pohlack:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> On 25.08.2010 11:22, David Abrahams wrote:
>>>
>>> I've gotten myself in trouble several times today by backspacing after
>>> an org-link that ends a headline.  That's a typical pattern for
>>> editing an org-link, right?  Well it turns out that if the item is
>>> folded, then the backspace writes over the end of the un-folded item
>>> but **appears to have no effect**, and you can easily hit backspace
>>> several times to test your sanity before you realize that something is
>>> wrong, badly corrupting your file.
>>
>> I have had similar such accidents, but not involving links.  You
>> probably backspaced into the "..."?
>>
>>> Seems to me that attempts to edit a folded item should either:
>>>
>>> a) restrict changes to the item's headline, or
>>> b) unfold the item and do nothing
>>>
>>> Is there a way to set that up?
>>
>> Just two quick ideas from me here:
>> * You could add a modification hook to all hidden areas to unfold them
>>   on modification, or
>> * You could set the read-only property for all hidden areas.  This could
>>   be setup at the same location where hiding is done.
>>
>> See also here:
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/elisp/html_node/Special-Properties.html#Special-Properties
>>
>> I proposed a patch for image overlay which show a related problem here:
>> http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/31/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Orgmode] Backspacing into folded items

[Andreas Röhler]

Hi Lennart,

IMHO cases are related but not identic.
When searching something and found inside hidden part, revealing that 
part is a logical step.

Not so with parts hidden while no interest inside.

For example these hidden parts may be large.

Revealing them every time you type into by mistake may turn out nasty.
Also you have to hide them again.

Using forms-mode, it happens quite often I reach a read-only field.
Forms-mode sets it `intangible' BTW, but thats similar.
Just get the error, know the mistake, not time spoiled for that.

Andreas


Am 03.09.2010 16:13, schrieb Lennart Borgman:
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Andreas Röhler
> <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> posting forwarded herewith describes a design inconvenience, wich affects
>> common hide-show- and outline-modes too.
>>
>> As too different solutions have been proposed, let me suggest
>> "setting read-only property" rather than "use of a modification hook".
>>
>> Setting hidden text read-only should be more simple, straitforward - as
>> presumably hiding some code had some reasons.
>
>
> I recently filed a bug report about that hidden text in org-mode nodes
> did not get visible when you start to edit them. It turned out I was
> mistaken, I did not have reveal-mode on as I believed. However the
> plan is to make reveal-mode default:
>
>    http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=6950
>
> How would making the text read-only or add a modification hook
> interact with the kind of problem reported in the bug above?
>
>
>> Editing hidden code is an error, which should be signaled rather than cured
>> via hook.
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> --
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode
>> https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/
>>
>>
>> Am 26.08.2010 00:28, schrieb Martin Pohlack:
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> On 25.08.2010 11:22, David Abrahams wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've gotten myself in trouble several times today by backspacing after
>>>> an org-link that ends a headline.  That's a typical pattern for
>>>> editing an org-link, right?  Well it turns out that if the item is
>>>> folded, then the backspace writes over the end of the un-folded item
>>>> but **appears to have no effect**, and you can easily hit backspace
>>>> several times to test your sanity before you realize that something is
>>>> wrong, badly corrupting your file.
>>>
>>> I have had similar such accidents, but not involving links.  You
>>> probably backspaced into the "..."?
>>>
>>>> Seems to me that attempts to edit a folded item should either:
>>>>
>>>> a) restrict changes to the item's headline, or
>>>> b) unfold the item and do nothing
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to set that up?
>>>
>>> Just two quick ideas from me here:
>>> * You could add a modification hook to all hidden areas to unfold them
>>>    on modification, or
>>> * You could set the read-only property for all hidden areas.  This could
>>>    be setup at the same location where hiding is done.
>>>
>>> See also here:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/elisp/html_node/Special-Properties.html#Special-Properties
>>>
>>> I proposed a patch for image overlay which show a related problem here:
>>> http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/31/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Backspacing into folded items

[Samuel Wales]

Dunno what is best, but when a solution is found, the following should
probably be tested to ensure that it is able to reverse the
non-editability:

  (let ((buffer-invisibility-spec))

On 2010-09-03, Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Andreas Röhler
> <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> posting forwarded herewith describes a design inconvenience, wich affects
>> common hide-show- and outline-modes too.
>>
>> As too different solutions have been proposed, let me suggest
>> "setting read-only property" rather than "use of a modification hook".
>>
>> Setting hidden text read-only should be more simple, straitforward - as
>> presumably hiding some code had some reasons.
>
>
> I recently filed a bug report about that hidden text in org-mode nodes
> did not get visible when you start to edit them. It turned out I was
> mistaken, I did not have reveal-mode on as I believed. However the
> plan is to make reveal-mode default:
>
>   http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=6950
>
> How would making the text read-only or add a modification hook
> interact with the kind of problem reported in the bug above?
>
>
>> Editing hidden code is an error, which should be signaled rather than
>> cured
>> via hook.
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> --
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode
>> https://code.launchpad.net/s-x-emacs-werkstatt/
>>
>>
>> Am 26.08.2010 00:28, schrieb Martin Pohlack:
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> On 25.08.2010 11:22, David Abrahams wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've gotten myself in trouble several times today by backspacing after
>>>> an org-link that ends a headline.  That's a typical pattern for
>>>> editing an org-link, right?  Well it turns out that if the item is
>>>> folded, then the backspace writes over the end of the un-folded item
>>>> but **appears to have no effect**, and you can easily hit backspace
>>>> several times to test your sanity before you realize that something is
>>>> wrong, badly corrupting your file.
>>>
>>> I have had similar such accidents, but not involving links.  You
>>> probably backspaced into the "..."?
>>>
>>>> Seems to me that attempts to edit a folded item should either:
>>>>
>>>> a) restrict changes to the item's headline, or
>>>> b) unfold the item and do nothing
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to set that up?
>>>
>>> Just two quick ideas from me here:
>>> * You could add a modification hook to all hidden areas to unfold them
>>>   on modification, or
>>> * You could set the read-only property for all hidden areas.  This could
>>>   be setup at the same location where hiding is done.
>>>
>>> See also here:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/elisp/html_node/Special-Properties.html#Special-Properties
>>>
>>> I proposed a patch for image overlay which show a related problem here:
>>> http://patchwork.newartisans.com/patch/31/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Orgmode] Backspacing into folded items

[Stefan Monnier]

> However the plan is to make reveal-mode default:

You're jumping to conclusions,


        Stefan

Re: [Orgmode] Backspacing into folded items

[Lennart Borgman]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> However the plan is to make reveal-mode default:
>
> You're jumping to conclusions,

Sorry, but what is the plan then?

Re: [Orgmode] Backspacing into folded items

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> However the plan is to make reveal-mode default:
>> You're jumping to conclusions,
> Sorry, but what is the plan then?

W.r.t. reveal-mode, there is no plan.


        Stefan