Re: across terminals

[PPAATT@aol.com]

> From: rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
> Let's consider this issue closed
> and NOT SPEND MORE TIME on it, OK?

This we could do by fiat, sure boss.

> I stand by what I said.

I'm new here I know, but certainly I am
as yet failing to make sense of what you said.

Do you mean to withdraw or otherwise modify
what you did not repeat?  That is ...

> Date: 4/20/02 11:28:15 AM MDT
> From: rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
...
> Since such characters are not available on all terminals, ...
> People won't want to use these keys in major modes
> or minor modes meant for general use.

Looks to me like Emacs folk actually do
commonly bind rare keys for general use?

Agreed?  No?  Yes?  Not exactly?

Are we just now telling me now this was inadvertent?

When we say "available on all terminals"
we mean the only terminals that count
are those designed for the people of Massachusetts?

> # $ @ [ \ ] ^ _ ` { | } ~
...
> I thought the issue was
> whether the terminal has these characters.
...
> Whether they use AltGr ... not ... relevant ...

This English I still think I don't understand,
sorry.  The non-US keyboards I see don't have
these labels on keys.

Saying that these terminals have these
chars is as silly as saying a US IBM PC
keyboard has all of the chars coded 0 to 255
because "everyone knows" you can hold down
the Alt key and type out the code in decimal
on the numeric keypad.

By that theory, the US IBM PC keyboard has
the letter ñ on it, perhaps at Alt 1 6 4,
so C-c ñ should count among the C-c letter keys.

But this you began by explicitly denying.

> > The non-US keyboards I see
> > don't have these labels on keys.

Is my (sharply limited) sample not representative?

> Since such characters are not available on all terminals, ...
> People won't want to use these keys in major modes
> or minor modes meant for general use.

What can this mean ... presuming you maintain it is true?

(((This would matter less, except that RMS said it, so maybe
here lies a key to understanding why Emacs can say
things like "overwrite-mode is on insert" and "C-c C-h is
undefined" while meaning something rather different than the
newbie might think.)))

Pat LaVarre



Subj:    Re: across terminals
Date:   4/25/02 9:18:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time
From:   rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
Reply-to:   rms@gnu.org
To: eliz@is.elta.co.il
CC: PPAATT@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE

> > I have never seen a terminal that did not have
> > these characters:
> >   # $ @ [ \ ] ^ _ ` { | } ~

> Unfortunately, this isn't true: many national
> keyboards in Europe don't have keys for some
> of those ( {, |, and } seem to be most prone
> to this).  You need to press some AltGr-key
> combination to get them.

I thought the issue was whether the terminal
has these characters.  Whether they use AltGr
is another question (not particularly
relevant here, I think).

I stand by what I said.  Let's consider this
issue closed and NOT SPEND MORE TIME on it, OK?