default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Tjernlund]

I have to set both lists below to make the change in colors effective. I think it should be
enough with default-frame-alist. This is on both 24.3 and 24.4

;; Color settings.
(setq default-frame-alist '((background-color . "#333333") (foreground-color . "White") (cursor-color . "White")))
(setq initial-frame-alist default-frame-alist)

  Jocke

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tjernlund <tjernlund@tjernlund.se>
> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:46:27 +0200
> 
> I have to set both lists below to make the change in colors
> effective. I think it should be enough with
> default-frame-alist. This is on both 24.3 and 24.4

This is the expected behavior, as described in the User Manual (see
the node "Frame Parameters").  Emacs always worked like that.

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I have to set both lists below to make the change in colors
>> effective.  I think it should be enough with
>> default-frame-alist. This is on both 24.3 and 24.4

> This is the expected behavior, as described in the User Manual (see
> the node "Frame Parameters").  Emacs always worked like that.

Really?  When I do:

   emacs -Q --eval '(setq default-frame-alist (quote ((background-color . "blue") (font . "fixed"))))'

I expect the initial frame to show me Emacs in a hideous font with
unbearable blue background.  And indeed that's what I get here.


        Stefan

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: Tjernlund <tjernlund@tjernlund.se>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:04:22 -0400
> 
> >> I have to set both lists below to make the change in colors
> >> effective.  I think it should be enough with
> >> default-frame-alist. This is on both 24.3 and 24.4
> 
> > This is the expected behavior, as described in the User Manual (see
> > the node "Frame Parameters").  Emacs always worked like that.
> 
> Really?  When I do:
> 
>    emacs -Q --eval '(setq default-frame-alist (quote ((background-color . "blue") (font . "fixed"))))'
> 
> I expect the initial frame to show me Emacs in a hideous font with
> unbearable blue background.  And indeed that's what I get here.

I'm quite sure the OP customized the list from .emacs, not from the
command line.  See the original message, which clearly shows that.

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm quite sure the OP customized the list from .emacs, not from the
> command line.  See the original message, which clearly shows that.

I still don't understand: if I do

   echo '(setq default-frame-alist (quote ((background-color . "blue") (font . "fixed"))))' >~/tmp/.emacs; HOME=$HOME/tmp emacs

I get the same result: a blue background and an ugly font, both on the
initial frame and on subsequent ones I might create with C-x 5 2.


        Stefan

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: tjernlund@tjernlund.se,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:51:08 -0400
> 
> > I'm quite sure the OP customized the list from .emacs, not from the
> > command line.  See the original message, which clearly shows that.
> 
> I still don't understand: if I do
> 
>    echo '(setq default-frame-alist (quote ((background-color . "blue") (font . "fixed"))))' >~/tmp/.emacs; HOME=$HOME/tmp emacs
> 
> I get the same result: a blue background and an ugly font, both on the
> initial frame and on subsequent ones I might create with C-x 5 2.

Then whoever made this change in behavior failed to update the
documentation, which still says what I wrote.

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Tjernlund]

On Fri, 2014-10-24 at 17:12 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> > Cc: tjernlund@tjernlund.se,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:51:08 -0400
> > 
> > > I'm quite sure the OP customized the list from .emacs, not from the
> > > command line.  See the original message, which clearly shows that.
> > 
> > I still don't understand: if I do
> > 
> >    echo '(setq default-frame-alist (quote ((background-color . "blue") (font . "fixed"))))' >~/tmp/.emacs; HOME=$HOME/tmp emacs
> > 
> > I get the same result: a blue background and an ugly font, both on the
> > initial frame and on subsequent ones I might create with C-x 5 2.
> 
> Then whoever made this change in behavior failed to update the
> documentation, which still says what I wrote.

Try my example:
Nothing gets me: 
 White background, Black text

Only (setq default-frame-alist '((background-color . "#333333") (foreground-color . "White") (cursor-color . "White"))) gets
 White background, White text

Both:
  Green background, White text

I find it asymmetric that with only default-frame-alist changes foreground, but not background nor cursor

 Jocke

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Stefan Monnier]

> This is the expected behavior, as described in the User Manual (see
> the node "Frame Parameters").  Emacs always worked like that.

I still don't get it.  The manual you quote says:

   You can control the default appearance and behavior of all frames by
   specifying a default list of "frame parameters" in the variable
    default-frame-alist .  Its value should be a list of entries, each
   specifying a parameter name and a value for that parameter.  These
   entries take effect whenever Emacs creates a new frame, including the
   initial frame.

So, it seems to agree with Tjernlund that adding entries to
default-frame-alist should be sufficient to affect the initial frame.


        Stefan

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[martin rudalics]

> Try my example:
> Nothing gets me:
>   White background, Black text
>
> Only (setq default-frame-alist '((background-color . "#333333") (foreground-color . "White") (cursor-color . "White"))) gets
>   White background, White text
>
> Both:
>    Green background, White text
>
> I find it asymmetric that with only default-frame-alist changes foreground, but not background nor cursor

Which platform, which build?

martin

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Tjernlund]

On Fri, 2014-10-24 at 19:53 +0200, martin rudalics wrote:
> > Try my example:
> > Nothing gets me:
> >   White background, Black text
> >
> > Only (setq default-frame-alist '((background-color . "#333333") (foreground-color . "White") (cursor-color . "White"))) gets
> >   White background, White text
> >
> > Both:
> >    Green background, White text
> >
> > I find it asymmetric that with only default-frame-alist changes foreground, but not background nor cursor
> 
> Which platform, which build?

Sorry for late reply, been travelling.

This is on Gentoo GNU Linux, both emacs 24.3 and 24.4

   Jocke

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[martin rudalics]

 >> Which platform, which build?
 >
 > Sorry for late reply, been travelling.
 >
 > This is on Gentoo GNU Linux, both emacs 24.3 and 24.4

And which toolkit?  It might be better if you filed a bug report.

martin

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Tjernlund]

On Mon, 2014-11-03 at 10:41 +0100, martin rudalics wrote:
>  >> Which platform, which build?
>  >
>  > Sorry for late reply, been travelling.
>  >
>  > This is on Gentoo GNU Linux, both emacs 24.3 and 24.4
> 
> And which toolkit?  It might be better if you filed a bug report.

app-editors/emacs:

     Installed versions:  24.4(24)(21:17:20 21/10/14)(X acl alsa dbus
gif gnutls gpm gtk gtk3 inotify jpeg png svg tiff xpm zlib -Xaw3d -aqua
-athena -games -gconf -gfile -gsettings -gzip-el -hesiod -imagemagick
-kerberos -libxml2 -livecd -m17n-lib -motif -pax_kernel -selinux -sound
-source -toolkit-scroll-bars -wide-int -xft)

You don't see the odd foreground change or the need to set both lists?

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[martin rudalics]

 > app-editors/emacs:
 >
 >       Installed versions:  24.4(24)(21:17:20 21/10/14)(X acl alsa dbus
 > gif gnutls gpm gtk gtk3 inotify jpeg png svg tiff xpm zlib -Xaw3d -aqua
 > -athena -games -gconf -gfile -gsettings -gzip-el -hesiod -imagemagick
 > -kerberos -libxml2 -livecd -m17n-lib -motif -pax_kernel -selinux -sound
 > -source -toolkit-scroll-bars -wide-int -xft)

Hmm... I still have no idea which build you're using.  What does C-h C-a
tell?

 > You don't see the odd foreground change or the need to set both lists?

No.  And AFAICT nobody could reproduce it so far.

martin

Re: default-frame-alist vs. initial-frame-alist

[Tjernlund]

On Tue, 2014-11-04 at 08:55 +0100, martin rudalics wrote:
>  > app-editors/emacs:
>  >
>  >       Installed versions:  24.4(24)(21:17:20 21/10/14)(X acl alsa dbus
>  > gif gnutls gpm gtk gtk3 inotify jpeg png svg tiff xpm zlib -Xaw3d -aqua
>  > -athena -games -gconf -gfile -gsettings -gzip-el -hesiod -imagemagick
>  > -kerberos -libxml2 -livecd -m17n-lib -motif -pax_kernel -selinux -sound
>  > -source -toolkit-scroll-bars -wide-int -xft)
> 
> Hmm... I still have no idea which build you're using.  What does C-h C-a
> tell? 

This is GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.

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 of 2014-10-21 on jocke
Copyright (C) 2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

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> 
>  > You don't see the odd foreground change or the need to set both lists?
> 
> No.  And AFAICT nobody could reproduce it so far.

Strange, I see this both at home and at work too:

GNU Emacs 24.3.92.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.23)
 of 2014-07-07 on gentoo-jocke
Copyright (C) 2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc.