bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Ciaran O'Riordan]

When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using. 


In GNU Emacs 22.1.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
 of 2008-05-03 on terranova, modified by Ubuntu
configured using `configure  '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8@euro
  locale-coding-system: utf-8
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Group

Minor modes in effect:
  gnus-undo-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  encoded-kbd-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t
  utf-translate-cjk-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
a v e SPC s o m e SPC s u p p o r t e r s C-p C-e C-f 
C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f 
C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-k C-x b RET q g n n n 
p p RET RET ESC > C-r m i n a RET ESC > C-r i m DEL 
l h m DEL DEL m h RET ESC > C-r j a p a DEL o n RET 
q C-x b RET C-x b RET g g p p p p p p p p p n RET RET 
q g p p p p p p p p p p p RET E E q g n n n RET E q 
g n n n n n n n n n n n n n n RET RET ESC > q g g p 
p p p RET E q g g n n p p p p p p p p p p p p p RET 
RET ESC > C-p C-p RET C-g n C-g q g g g g g g g m C-n 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o C-o C-n ESC x s e t - i n p u TAB 
RET d u t TAB RET s ; DEL DEL s , C-p C-f C-k C-x k 
RET y e s RET m C-x k RET ESC x e m a c s - b u TAB 
TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL TAB TAB ESC DEL b u g TAB TAB 
TAB C-h a b u g RET C-x o C-v C-v q C-x 0 ESC x e r 
e DEL DEL DEL r e p o TAB r t TAB RET

Recent messages:
nnml: Reading incoming mail (no new mail)...done
Reading active file via nnml...done
Reading active file from archive via nnfolder...done
Checking new news...done
Making completion list...
Quit
Loading apropos...done
Type C-x 1 to remove help window.  
Making completion list...
Loading emacsbug...done

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[James Cloos]

On that front, the ij (ij) and IJ (IJ) ligs are not really used.  (They
are only in the UCS for compatability with legacy encodings.)

They should not be part of the default input method.

-JimC
-- 
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com>         OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Juri Linkov]

> When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by
> a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s
> with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are
> needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the
> Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this
> is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using.

Maybe this should be fixed by separating Dutch and Turkish input methods,
and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
those users who need this.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Joe Wells]

Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes:

> Maybe this should be fixed by …,
> and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
> those users who need this.

Strongly agreed!  It would be wonderful if it were possible to combine
input methods.

-- 
Joe


-- 
Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity
registered under charity number SC000278.

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Andrew Hyatt]

I've confirmed that this problem still exists in Emacs 25.

coriordan@vorcha.compsoc.com (Ciaran O'Riordan) writes:

> When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using. 
>
>
> In GNU Emacs 22.1.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
>  of 2008-05-03 on terranova, modified by Ubuntu
> configured using `configure  '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LC_ALL: nil
>   value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
>   value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
>   value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
>   value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
>   value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
>   value of $LC_TIME: nil
>   value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8@euro
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8
>   default-enable-multibyte-characters: t
>
> Major mode: Group
>
> Minor modes in effect:
>   gnus-undo-mode: t
>   show-paren-mode: t
>   display-time-mode: t
>   encoded-kbd-mode: t
>   tool-bar-mode: t
>   file-name-shadow-mode: t
>   global-font-lock-mode: t
>   font-lock-mode: t
>   unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t
>   utf-translate-cjk-mode: t
>   auto-compression-mode: t
>   column-number-mode: t
>   line-number-mode: t
>   transient-mark-mode: t
>
> Recent input:
> a v e SPC s o m e SPC s u p p o r t e r s C-p C-e C-f 
> C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f 
> C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-k C-x b RET q g n n n 
> p p RET RET ESC > C-r m i n a RET ESC > C-r i m DEL 
> l h m DEL DEL m h RET ESC > C-r j a p a DEL o n RET 
> q C-x b RET C-x b RET g g p p p p p p p p p n RET RET 
> q g p p p p p p p p p p p RET E E q g n n n RET E q 
> g n n n n n n n n n n n n n n RET RET ESC > q g g p 
> p p p RET E q g g n n p p p p p p p p p p p p p RET 
> RET ESC > C-p C-p RET C-g n C-g q g g g g g g g m C-n 
> C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o C-o C-n ESC x s e t - i n p u TAB 
> RET d u t TAB RET s ; DEL DEL s , C-p C-f C-k C-x k 
> RET y e s RET m C-x k RET ESC x e m a c s - b u TAB 
> TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL TAB TAB ESC DEL b u g TAB TAB 
> TAB C-h a b u g RET C-x o C-v C-v q C-x 0 ESC x e r 
> e DEL DEL DEL r e p o TAB r t TAB RET
>
> Recent messages:
> nnml: Reading incoming mail (no new mail)...done
> Reading active file via nnml...done
> Reading active file from archive via nnfolder...done
> Checking new news...done
> Making completion list...
> Quit
> Loading apropos...done
> Type C-x 1 to remove help window.  
> Making completion list...
> Loading emacsbug...done

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Toon Claes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 706 bytes --]


>>>>> Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> writes:

>Maybe this should be fixed by separating Dutch and Turkish input methods,
>and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
>those users who need this.

I am native Dutch speaking. And I agree on separating Dutch from
Turkish.
When we are talking about Dutch and Turkish, I do not see any added
value in combining these two input methods. In my opinion there are
completely unrelated.
If combining input methods is interesting for other ones, it is outside
the scope of this bug and is better discussed on the emacs-devel mailing
list.

--
Toon Claes
toon@iotcl.com
PGP key fingerprint = AA9A A457 F944 B972 83D4  A177 3114 3A82 D32B 3897


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bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Toon Claes <toon@iotcl.com> writes:

> I am native Dutch speaking. And I agree on separating Dutch from Turkish.

I'm not native speaking, and even I agree.  Why would they be conflated at
all?  Do we need to ship Emacs with a small global map? :)

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Toon Claes]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 189 bytes --]

Tags: patch

I removed the Turkish ligatures from Dutch in the patch attached.

Regards,

Toon Claes
toon@iotcl.com
PGP key fingerprint = AA9A A457 F944 B972 83D4  A177 3114 3A82 D32B 3897

[-- Attachment #1.2: 0001-Fix-Bug-518.patch --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 2166 bytes --]

From 7d823da136832a59f91c90cc2136ed7bb1523ae0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Toon Claes <toon@iotcl.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:30:38 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Fix Bug#518

* lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el: Remove Turkish ligatures from Dutch
  input method.
---
 lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el | 13 +------------
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 12 deletions(-)

diff --git a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
index 30df9ac..5e644ed 100644
--- a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
+++ b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
@@ -1152,7 +1152,7 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a^^ -> a^
 (quail-define-package
  "dutch" "Dutch" "NL" t
  "Dutch character mixfix input method.
-Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
+Caters for French and Dutch.
 
              |         | examples
  ------------+---------+----------
@@ -1163,8 +1163,6 @@ Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
   acute      |    \\='    | a\\=' -> á
   grave      |    \\=`    | a\\=` -> à
   circumflex |    ^    | a^ -> â
-  Turkish    | various | i/ -> ı  s, -> ş  g^ -> ğ   I/ -> İ
-             |         |  S, -> Ş  G^ -> Ğ
  ------------+---------+----------
              | prefix  |
  ------------+---------+----------
@@ -1226,15 +1224,6 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a\\='\\=' -> a\\='
  ("I^" ?Î) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX
  ("O^" ?Ô) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX
  ("U^" ?Û) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX
- ;; “Follow the example of the Dutch POSIX locale, using ISO-8859-9 to
- ;; cater to the many Turks in Dutch society.”  Perhaps German methods
- ;; should do so too.  Follow turkish-alt-postfix here.
- ("i/" ?ı) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH NO DOT
- ("s," ?ş) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
- ("g^" ?ğ) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE
- ("I/" ?İ) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE
- ("S," ?Ş) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
- ("G^" ?Ğ) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH BREVE
  )
 
 ;; Originally from Yudit, discussed with Albertas Agejevas
-- 
2.7.1


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bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[npostavs]

tags 518 patch
quit

>
> From 7d823da136832a59f91c90cc2136ed7bb1523ae0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Toon Claes <toon@iotcl.com>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:30:38 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] Fix Bug#518

It seems this patch was forgotten.  I don't know much about input
methods, but the patch looks trivially correct.  Any reason not to
apply?

Toon do you have a copyright assignment?  I assume not, there's no need
since the patch only removes code...

>
> * lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el: Remove Turkish ligatures from Dutch
>   input method.
> ---
>  lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el | 13 +------------
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 12 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> index 30df9ac..5e644ed 100644
> --- a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> +++ b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> @@ -1152,7 +1152,7 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a^^ -> a^
>  (quail-define-package
>   "dutch" "Dutch" "NL" t
>   "Dutch character mixfix input method.
> -Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
> +Caters for French and Dutch.
>  
>               |         | examples
>   ------------+---------+----------
> @@ -1163,8 +1163,6 @@ Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
>    acute      |    \\='    | a\\=' -> ¡
>    grave      |    \\=`    | a\\=` ->  
>    circumflex |    ^    | a^ -> ¢
> -  Turkish    | various | i/ -> ±  s, -> Ÿ  g^ -> Ÿ   I/ -> °
> -             |         |  S, -> ž  G^ -> ž
>   ------------+---------+----------
>               | prefix  |
>   ------------+---------+----------
> @@ -1226,15 +1224,6 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a\\='\\=' -> a\\='
>   ("I^" ?Ž) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX
>   ("O^" ?”) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX
>   ("U^" ?›) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX
> - ;; €œFollow the example of the Dutch POSIX locale, using ISO-8859-9 to
> - ;; cater to the many Turks in Dutch society.€  Perhaps German methods
> - ;; should do so too.  Follow turkish-alt-postfix here.
> - ("i/" ?±) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH NO DOT
> - ("s," ?Ÿ) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
> - ("g^" ?Ÿ) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE
> - ("I/" ?°) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE
> - ("S," ?ž) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
> - ("G^" ?ž) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH BREVE
>   )
>  
>  ;; Originally from Yudit, discussed with Albertas Agejevas

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Paul Eggert]

> It seems this patch was forgotten.  I don't know much about input
> methods, but the patch looks trivially correct.  Any reason not to
> apply?

I don't see one. I applied the patch to Emacs master. Thanks, Toon.

bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

[Paul Eggert]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 249 bytes --]

> On that front, the ij (ij) and IJ (IJ) ligs are not really used.  (They
> are only in the UCS for compatability with legacy encodings.)
> 
> They should not be part of the default input method.

Thanks, good point. I installed the attached.

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Do-not-convert-ij-and-IJ-to-compatibility-chars.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch; name="0001-Do-not-convert-ij-and-IJ-to-compatibility-chars.patch", Size: 1614 bytes --]

From aea80aa6541842aed6cf18ce5dc9a4c3bb6c7340 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:19:39 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Do not convert ij and IJ to compatibility chars

* lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el: Omit lines for ij and IJ in Dutch.
Problem reported by James Cloos (Bug#518#10).
---
 etc/NEWS                     | 3 +++
 lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el | 3 ---
 2 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS
index 2034bcb..dd6d546 100644
--- a/etc/NEWS
+++ b/etc/NEWS
@@ -360,6 +360,9 @@ variable of this kind to swap modifiers in Emacs.
 
 ---
 ** The 'dutch' input method no longer attempts to support Turkish too.
+Also, it no longer converts 'IJ' and 'ij' to the compatibility
+characters U+0132 LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE IJ and U+0133 LATIN SMALL
+LIGATURE IJ.
 
 +++
 ** File name quoting by adding the prefix "/:" is now possible for the
diff --git a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
index 0a04874..cc72134 100644
--- a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
+++ b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
@@ -1174,9 +1174,6 @@
 (quail-define-rules
  ("fl." ?ƒ) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER F WITH HOOK (florin currency symbol)
  ("eur." ?€) ;; EURO SIGN
- ;; “The 25th letter of the Dutch alphabet.”
- ("ij" ?ij) ;; LATIN SMALL LIGATURE IJ
- ("IJ" ?IJ) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE IJ
  ;; “Trema on the second letter of vowel pair.”  Yudit uses `:', not `"'.
  ("\"a" ?ä) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
  ("\"e" ?ë) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS
-- 
2.7.4