bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Eric Blood]

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i use magnet (https://magnet.crowdcafe.com) on the mac which uses key
combinations like ctrl-option-leftarrow, or ctrl-option-rightarrow to
reorganize windows quickly.  with the official mac build of emacs these
combinations don't work, however the railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
build does.  it would be nice to see these keys work.


In GNU Emacs 28.2 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin21.1.0, NS appkit-2113.00
Version 12.0.1 (Build 21A559))
 of 2023-02-22 built on armbob.lan
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2299
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bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Stefan Kangas]

tags 62962 + moreinfo
thanks

Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:

> i use magnet (https://magnet.crowdcafe.com) on the mac which uses key
> combinations like ctrl-option-leftarrow, or ctrl-option-rightarrow to
> reorganize windows quickly.  with the official mac build of emacs these
> combinations don't work, however the railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
> build does.  it would be nice to see these keys work.

I can't reproduce this.

Could you please check that you have no global keybindings customized on
your machine.

See:
https://superuser.com/questions/638697/in-emacs-my-c-right-and-c-left-on-my-mac-keyboard-does-not-work

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Eric Blood]

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greetings stefan..

i just pulled down a recent release of emacs (
https://emacsformacosx.com/emacs-builds/Emacs-29.1-1-universal.dmg),
started with `~/Downloads/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -q`, and the issue
is still there.  are you using magnet?  the default bindings of
ctrl-opt-leftarrow or ctrl-opt-rightarrow (using mac keyboard nomenclature)
to move the window to the left or right of the screen don't work.  if i
type ctrl-opt-x, the minibuffer reports "C-M-x is undefined", but doesn't
say anything when i type ctrl-opt-leftarrow or ctrl-opt-rightarrow.  again,
this does work with the railwaycat build (and the 15 other mac apps i have
open).

i just verified i don't have any global shortcuts defined by going into
system settings/keyboard shortcuts and defining ctrl-opt-leftarrow to show
notification center.  it doesn't show a conflict with any other shortcuts,
and it overrides the magnet binding and shows notification center.


On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 10:31 AM Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
wrote:

> tags 62962 + moreinfo
> thanks
>
> Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > i use magnet (https://magnet.crowdcafe.com) on the mac which uses key
> > combinations like ctrl-option-leftarrow, or ctrl-option-rightarrow to
> > reorganize windows quickly.  with the official mac build of emacs these
> > combinations don't work, however the railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
> > build does.  it would be nice to see these keys work.
>
> I can't reproduce this.
>
> Could you please check that you have no global keybindings customized on
> your machine.
>
> See:
>
> https://superuser.com/questions/638697/in-emacs-my-c-right-and-c-left-on-my-mac-keyboard-does-not-work
>

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bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Stefan Kangas]

Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:

> greetings stefan..
>
> i just pulled down a recent release of emacs (
> https://emacsformacosx.com/emacs-builds/Emacs-29.1-1-universal.dmg),
> started with `~/Downloads/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -q`, and the issue
> is still there.

If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
Emacs for MacOSX developers first.

Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if you
can reproduce the issue.

> are you using magnet?

No.

> the default bindings of ctrl-opt-leftarrow or ctrl-opt-rightarrow
> (using mac keyboard nomenclature) to move the window to the left or
> right of the screen don't work.

The default bindings of what?  Magnet?

Does Emacs have support for this?

> if i type ctrl-opt-x, the minibuffer reports "C-M-x is undefined", but
> doesn't say anything when i type ctrl-opt-leftarrow or
> ctrl-opt-rightarrow.  again, this does work with the railwaycat build
> (and the 15 other mac apps i have open).

What is the "railwaycat build"?

> i just verified i don't have any global shortcuts defined by going into
> system settings/keyboard shortcuts and defining ctrl-opt-leftarrow to show
> notification center.  it doesn't show a conflict with any other shortcuts,
> and it overrides the magnet binding and shows notification center.

Thanks.

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Eric Blood]

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> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.

to be clear https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html does
point to https://emacsformacosx.com/ which would indicate it's
official in some manner. even the `brew install --cask emacs` (which
the download page instructs) points to these builds. i didn't realize
it's not considered an offical build.

> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if
> you can reproduce the issue.

ok, i just built it from source (haven't done that in years, not as
painful as it once was), but still the same issue.

>> are you using magnet?

> No.

ok, i'm not sure how else to replicate it then.

> The default bindings of what?  Magnet?

yes.

> Does Emacs have support for this?

i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
works.

> What is the "railwaycat build"?

https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 10:11 AM Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > greetings stefan..
> >
> > i just pulled down a recent release of emacs (
> > https://emacsformacosx.com/emacs-builds/Emacs-29.1-1-universal.dmg),
> > started with `~/Downloads/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -q`, and the
> issue
> > is still there.
>
> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.
>
> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if you
> can reproduce the issue.
>
> > are you using magnet?
>
> No.
>
> > the default bindings of ctrl-opt-leftarrow or ctrl-opt-rightarrow
> > (using mac keyboard nomenclature) to move the window to the left or
> > right of the screen don't work.
>
> The default bindings of what?  Magnet?
>
> Does Emacs have support for this?
>
> > if i type ctrl-opt-x, the minibuffer reports "C-M-x is undefined", but
> > doesn't say anything when i type ctrl-opt-leftarrow or
> > ctrl-opt-rightarrow.  again, this does work with the railwaycat build
> > (and the 15 other mac apps i have open).
>
> What is the "railwaycat build"?
>
> > i just verified i don't have any global shortcuts defined by going into
> > system settings/keyboard shortcuts and defining ctrl-opt-leftarrow to
> show
> > notification center.  it doesn't show a conflict with any other
> shortcuts,
> > and it overrides the magnet binding and shows notification center.
>
> Thanks.
>

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bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Stefan Kangas]

Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:

>> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
>> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.
>
> to be clear https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html does
> point to https://emacsformacosx.com/ which would indicate it's
> official in some manner. even the `brew install --cask emacs` (which
> the download page instructs) points to these builds. i didn't realize
> it's not considered an offical build.

Aha, I wasn't aware.  It seems like they actually just build a stock
Emacs, so I suppose that is fine, then.

>> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if
>> you can reproduce the issue.
>
> ok, i just built it from source (haven't done that in years, not as
> painful as it once was), but still the same issue.

Thanks for testing.

>> Does Emacs have support for this?
>
> i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
> the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
> works.

Is your suspicion here that the keys never reach Emacs, or is it that
the special feature of the "Magnet" program that doesn't work like it
should?

>> What is the "railwaycat build"?
>
> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport

Noted, thanks.

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Gerd Möllmann]

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
>>> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.
>>
>> to be clear https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html does
>> point to https://emacsformacosx.com/ which would indicate it's
>> official in some manner. even the `brew install --cask emacs` (which
>> the download page instructs) points to these builds. i didn't realize
>> it's not considered an offical build.
>
> Aha, I wasn't aware.  It seems like they actually just build a stock
> Emacs, so I suppose that is fine, then.
>
>>> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if
>>> you can reproduce the issue.
>>
>> ok, i just built it from source (haven't done that in years, not as
>> painful as it once was), but still the same issue.
>
> Thanks for testing.
>
>>> Does Emacs have support for this?
>>
>> i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
>> the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
>> works.
>
> Is your suspicion here that the keys never reach Emacs, or is it that
> the special feature of the "Magnet" program that doesn't work like it
> should?
>
>>> What is the "railwaycat build"?
>>
>> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
>
> Noted, thanks.

Eric, maybe do a M-x customize-group RET ns RET, and look at the various
"modifier" choices in the customize buffer.  There are 2 for the two
Option keys on the left and right side of the keyboard.

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Gerd Möllmann]

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
>>> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.
>>
>> to be clear https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html does
>> point to https://emacsformacosx.com/ which would indicate it's
>> official in some manner. even the `brew install --cask emacs` (which
>> the download page instructs) points to these builds. i didn't realize
>> it's not considered an offical build.
>
> Aha, I wasn't aware.  It seems like they actually just build a stock
> Emacs, so I suppose that is fine, then.
>
>>> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if
>>> you can reproduce the issue.
>>
>> ok, i just built it from source (haven't done that in years, not as
>> painful as it once was), but still the same issue.
>
> Thanks for testing.
>
>>> Does Emacs have support for this?
>>
>> i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
>> the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
>> works.
>
> Is your suspicion here that the keys never reach Emacs, or is it that
> the special feature of the "Magnet" program that doesn't work like it
> should?
>
>>> What is the "railwaycat build"?
>>
>> https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
>
> Noted, thanks.

Eric, maybe do a M-x customize-group RET ns RET, and look at the various
"modifier" choices in the customize buffer.  There are 2 for the two
Option keys on the left and right side of the keyboard.

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Eric Blood]

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thanks for walking through all of that with me.  i went back and tested
another mac window manager app, rectangle (https://rectangleapp.com/), and
it turns out with the same key combination that it works with the stock
build of emacs.  so it looks like magnet's method of moving windows, and
not the key combination (thanks to alan for the correction), is the culprit
here.

again thanks for all the help,
eric

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 12:34 PM Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >> If this is a third-party build, so I'd suggest reporting this to the
> >> Emacs for MacOSX developers first.
> >
> > to be clear https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html does
> > point to https://emacsformacosx.com/ which would indicate it's
> > official in some manner. even the `brew install --cask emacs` (which
> > the download page instructs) points to these builds. i didn't realize
> > it's not considered an offical build.
>
> Aha, I wasn't aware.  It seems like they actually just build a stock
> Emacs, so I suppose that is fine, then.
>
> >> Alternatively, you could try building Emacs from source and see if
> >> you can reproduce the issue.
> >
> > ok, i just built it from source (haven't done that in years, not as
> > painful as it once was), but still the same issue.
>
> Thanks for testing.
>
> >> Does Emacs have support for this?
> >
> > i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
> > the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
> > works.
>
> Is your suspicion here that the keys never reach Emacs, or is it that
> the special feature of the "Magnet" program that doesn't work like it
> should?
>
> >> What is the "railwaycat build"?
> >
> > https://github.com/railwaycat/homebrew-emacsmacport
>
> Noted, thanks.
>

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bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: 62962@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Eric Blood <winkywooster@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2023 17:27:27 -0600
> 
> thanks for walking through all of that with me.  i went back and tested another mac window manager
> app, rectangle (https://rectangleapp.com/), and it turns out with the same key combination that it
> works with the stock build of emacs.  so it looks like magnet's method of moving windows, and not
> the key combination (thanks to alan for the correction), is the culprit here.

Thanks for telling us.  I'm therefore closing this bug.

bug#62962: 28.2; blocked key combinations in macos

[Alan Third]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 10:49:09AM -0600, Eric Blood wrote:
> > Does Emacs have support for this?
> 
> i would think that any unbound key combinations should be passed to
> the operating system, and with the *unofficial* railwaycat build, it
> works.

This isn't how keyboard input works. The OS gets first refusal at
keyboard input and then passes it to the application. The application
doesn't then pass the input back, it either acts on it or doesn't.
AFAIK there's no way to pass it back.

I have no idea how magnet works. We've had occasional complaints about
this over the years but nobody has ever been able to explain what
we're doing wrong.

The magnet website itself has about four pages, none of which are
remotely helpful.
-- 
Alan Third