bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Jari Aalto]

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Doing a quick bare bones editing of file:

  emacs -Q  README

On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.

[1] Debian; mrxvt 0.5.3-2 terminal
http://packages.debian.org/mrxvt


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bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Lennart Borgman]

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
>  emacs -Q  README
>
> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.

Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Jari Aalto]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
>
>>  emacs -Q  README
>>
>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>
> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.

That's good, but is only secondary problem.

Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
(-Q) program behavior is asked.

Jari

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Lennart Borgman]

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>
>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>
>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>
> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>
> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> (-Q) program behavior is asked.

Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.

If you want "bare bones" you can perhaps use fundamental-mode in Emacs.

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Jari Aalto]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>>
>>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>>
>>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>>
>> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>>
>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>
> Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.

"By default" I read it "as programs sarts without any other options".

I think it is reasonable to expect that features are reduced, like
font-lock, with option "-Q" to give "bare bones" program start.

Jari

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Chong Yidong]

> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> (-Q) program behavior is asked.

No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging, and it is
unhelpful to turn off font-lock for that purpose.  If the colors on a
white terminal are unreadable, we should fix them everywhere, not just
in -Q.

In the screenshot you posted, the main problem I see is the use of light
cyan for font-lock-keyword-face.  What we could do is remove the
`:weight bold' attribute in the 8-color-terminal definition of
font-lock-keyword-face.

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Kevin Rodgers]

Jari Aalto wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> wrote:
>>>>>  emacs -Q  README
>>>>>
>>>>> On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
>>>>> font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.
>>>> Seems to me like it is better to fix the colors used.
>>> That's good, but is only secondary problem.
>>>
>>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>> Font lock mode is on by default since Emacs 22.
> 
> "By default" I read it "as programs sarts without any other options".

Think of it as "without any customizations".

> I think it is reasonable to expect that features are reduced, like
> font-lock, with option "-Q" to give "bare bones" program start.

-- 
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Jari Aalto]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

>> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
>> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
>
> No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging

Not just debugging. When other programs call for $EDITOR, the typical
value is for emacs users is:

    EDITOR="emacs -Q -nw"

beacuse most want the editor to start in these cases as fast as
possible.

> If the colors on a white terminal are unreadable, we should fix them
> everywhere, not just in -Q.

If the -Q option cannot be changed, please provide separate option which
turns off colors, something like:

  --no-colors

I know it's possiblt to:

   --eval '(global-font-lock-mode -1)'

But I'd call that 'workaround', considering:

1)  Some programs that parse EDITOR, can't handle embedded quotes and
    embedded spaces  correctly.
2)  It calls for understanding more lisp than needed for average Joe
3)  The short, self documenting option "--no-colors" and some suitable
    short option is easier to write.

Jari

bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net>
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:32:43 +0200
> Cc: 2235@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
> 
> Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:
> 
> >> Please refrain from turning on additional features when "bare bones"
> >> (-Q) program behavior is asked.
> >
> > No, thanks.  The -Q option is largely intended for debugging

Indeed.  This is Emacs, not XEmacs: -Q does not mean "bare bones", it
means "without loading any customization files".

> If the -Q option cannot be changed, please provide separate option which
> turns off colors, something like:
> 
>   --no-colors

This is already available, it's called "--color=never".  Although I
don't understand why you think it will load faster than the default
version.  Care to explain? or is this again based on your experience
with XEmacs?

> 1)  Some programs that parse EDITOR, can't handle embedded quotes and
>     embedded spaces  correctly.

Which ones?

> 3)  The short, self documenting option "--no-colors" and some suitable
>     short option is easier to write.

It's only self-documenting if one reads documentation.  But if one
does read documentation, then one would have known about a no less
self-documenting option "--color".

bug#2235: marked as done (22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock)

[Emacs bug Tracking System]

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Your message dated Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:24:09 -0500
with message-id <jwvy6wgy90s.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org>
and subject line Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
has caused the Emacs bug report #2235,
regarding 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
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-- 
2235: http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=2235
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com with problems

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Doing a quick bare bones editing of file:

  emacs -Q  README

On a white terminal[1], the results are unreadable. Please deactivate
font-lock when --no-site-file (as in -Q) option is specified.

[1] Debian; mrxvt 0.5.3-2 terminal
http://packages.debian.org/mrxvt


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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net>
Cc: 2235-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
Subject: Re: bug#2235: 22.2.1 emacs -Q should not turn on font-lock
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:24:09 -0500
Message-ID: <jwvy6wgy90s.fsf-monnier+emacsbugreports@gnu.org>

> Not just debugging. When other programs call for $EDITOR, the typical
> value is for emacs users is:

>     EDITOR="emacs -Q -nw"

> beacuse most want the editor to start in these cases as fast as
> possible.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the above is typical.
"-Q" didn't exist before Emacs-22, so it must a recent form of
"typical".  If speed is an issue, the recommendation is rather to use
emacsclient, which will work even better in Emacs-23.

The real problem you're experiencing is that Emacs apparently cannot
reliably determine the background color of your terminal (it can do that
for recent `xterm' IIRC), so it might think it's dark whereas your
is light.


        Stefan