* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
@ 2020-03-06 1:19 Glenn Morris
2020-03-06 7:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2020-03-06 1:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 39940
Package: emacs
Version: 28.0.50
Severity: wishlist
I found the variable 'operating-system-release' for the first time today.
1) This isn't what I would call the operating system release.
Eg my current operating system is CentOS, release 8.1.
operating-system-release is "4.18.0-147.5.1.el8_1.x86_64",
which is the kernel version. (Surprising to find these two things
mixed up in a GNU project. :) )
2) I don't see why it is useful to have a Lisp variable for this
(it had one use in the Emacs C code before c996fe1ec6).
I suggest obsoleting it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2020-03-06 1:19 bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release Glenn Morris
@ 2020-03-06 7:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-29 6:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-03-06 7:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 39940
> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:19:31 -0500
>
> I found the variable 'operating-system-release' for the first time today.
>
> 1) This isn't what I would call the operating system release.
> Eg my current operating system is CentOS, release 8.1.
> operating-system-release is "4.18.0-147.5.1.el8_1.x86_64",
> which is the kernel version. (Surprising to find these two things
> mixed up in a GNU project. :) )
>
> 2) I don't see why it is useful to have a Lisp variable for this
> (it had one use in the Emacs C code before c996fe1ec6).
> I suggest obsoleting it.
(My Git repository doesn't know about commit c996fe1ec6. AFAICT, this
variable was added in 3bb9abc.)
Some relevant information:
This variable was added due to the issues discussed in this old
thread:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html
See also
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00835.html
(I guess I never got any responses, and so the documentation never
happened ;-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2020-03-06 7:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-01-29 6:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-29 9:30 ` Glenn Morris
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-01-29 6:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Glenn Morris, 39940
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> Some relevant information:
>
> This variable was added due to the issues discussed in this old
> thread:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html
I did not read the complete thread, but I guess the upshot is that we're
not going to obsolete this variable.
I have altered the doc string to say what it actually is, though.
> See also
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00835.html
>
> (I guess I never got any responses, and so the documentation never
> happened ;-)
This bit in particular:
> Finally, and most importantly, if we add the call to uname, why not
> store all of the info it returns in some Lisp data structure, not just
> the OS release?
That is a good question, and would be a better design than just this
single variable. But I guess that nobody has requested the rest of the
data?
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-29 6:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-01-29 9:30 ` Glenn Morris
2021-01-30 6:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2021-01-29 9:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 39940
Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html
>
> I did not read the complete thread, but I guess the upshot is that we're
> not going to obsolete this variable.
A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-29 9:30 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2021-01-30 6:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-30 8:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-01-30 6:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 39940
Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
> A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
> The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
> Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.
True. I see that Eli added support for it on Windows too now, so I
guess he disagrees. :-)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-30 6:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-01-30 8:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-31 7:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-01-30 8:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: rgm, 39940
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, 39940@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 07:10:56 +0100
>
> Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
> > The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
> > Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.
>
> True. I see that Eli added support for it on Windows too now, so I
> guess he disagrees. :-)
I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
can fix that. It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
Windows. But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
won't object.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-30 8:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-01-31 7:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-31 13:06 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-01-31 7:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, 39940
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
> platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
> can fix that. It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
> Windows. But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
> deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
> won't object.
I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
marked it as obsolete. If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
whether anybody pipes up.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-31 7:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2021-01-31 13:06 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-01-31 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-01 8:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2021-01-31 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: rgm, 39940
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
>> platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
>> can fix that. It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
>> Windows. But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
>> deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
>> won't object.
>
> I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
> usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
> marked it as obsolete. If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
> reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
> whether anybody pipes up.
Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
Thanks,
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-31 13:06 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2021-01-31 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-01 3:21 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-01 8:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-01-31 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: rgm, larsi, 39940
> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, rgm@gnu.org, 39940@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:06:22 +0000
>
> > I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
> > usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
> > marked it as obsolete. If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
> > reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
> > whether anybody pipes up.
>
> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-31 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-02-01 3:21 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-01 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Basil L. Contovounesios @ 2021-02-01 3:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rgm, larsi, 39940
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, rgm@gnu.org, 39940@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:06:22 +0000
>>
>> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
>
> We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
> AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.
At least on GNU/Linux, report-emacs-bug does not currently report the
kernel version. I was wondering whether that would be useful
information to include. Does report-emacs-bug already include the
information provided by operating-system-release on other platforms?
Thanks,
--
Basil
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-02-01 3:21 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
@ 2021-02-01 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2021-02-01 3:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: rgm, larsi, 39940
> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie>
> Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rgm@gnu.org, 39940@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 03:21:45 +0000
>
> >> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
> >
> > We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
> > AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.
>
> At least on GNU/Linux, report-emacs-bug does not currently report the
> kernel version. I was wondering whether that would be useful
> information to include. Does report-emacs-bug already include the
> information provided by operating-system-release on other platforms?
It depends on what you mean by "kernel version". What we have there
can be seen in report-emacs-bug--os-description.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
2021-01-31 13:06 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-01-31 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2021-02-01 8:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2021-02-01 8:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Basil L. Contovounesios; +Cc: rgm, 39940
"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob@tcd.ie> writes:
> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
Not excessively -- I can't recall a single Emacs bug report where
knowing what the kernel version is would be helpful.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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2020-03-06 1:19 bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release Glenn Morris
2020-03-06 7:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-29 6:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-29 9:30 ` Glenn Morris
2021-01-30 6:10 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-30 8:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-31 7:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-31 13:06 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-01-31 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-01 3:21 ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-01 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-01 8:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
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