bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Drew Adams]

1. emacs -Q

2. In *scratch*, type and then eval this: (setq a 42).

3. C-h v a

You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):

 Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

And *Help* is displayed with this:

 a's value is 42

   Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.

 Documentation:
 Not documented as a variable.

An Easter egg, of sorts.  And Emacs version 1.1!
What's the prize for finding this begg?


In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2021-03-26 built on CIRROCUMULUS
Repository revision: deef5efafb70f4b171265b896505b92b6eef24e6
Repository branch: HEAD
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19041
System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2004.19041.985)

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Making completion list...
Quit [2 times]
42 (#o52, #x2a, ?*)
Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Type C-x 1 to delete the help window.
scroll-up-command: End of buffer

Configured using:
 'configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY W32NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2
HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS MODULES THREADS JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Messages

Minor modes in effect:
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  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny format-spec rfc822 mml
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bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse
rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils cl-print thingatpt help-fns
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tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
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term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
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select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
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button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
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emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 59600 11136)
 (symbols 48 6529 3)
 (strings 32 20795 1649)
 (string-bytes 1 574528)
 (vectors 16 10244)
 (vector-slots 8 145373 15886)
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 (buffers 1000 15))

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> 3. C-h v a
>
> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>
>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
be removed?  Stefan?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-06-19 15:38:09] wrote:
> Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> 3. C-h v a
>>
>> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>>
>>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

I don't see this here.  I assume there was a RET at the end of `C-h
v a`, but hitting RET there just pops up the *Completions* display.

> Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
> be removed?  Stefan?

The message is meant to help us fix the NEWS* files so that the code
that searches them gives relevant answers.  IOW it's supposed to point
out a (minor) "bug".


        Stefan

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-06-19 15:38:09] wrote:
>> Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>>> 3. C-h v a
>>>
>>> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>>>
>>>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
>
> I don't see this here.  I assume there was a RET at the end of `C-h
> v a`, but hitting RET there just pops up the *Completions* display.

Ah, I didn't include the entire test case -- we defined a command called
`a' first.

>> Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
>> be removed?  Stefan?
>
> The message is meant to help us fix the NEWS* files so that the code
> that searches them gives relevant answers.  IOW it's supposed to point
> out a (minor) "bug".

For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

I've now done this in Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

> For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.


        Stefan

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: 49062@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 10:08:26 -0400
> From:  Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> > For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> > Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> > symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.
> 
> FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
> grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
> things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
> adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.

Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
if they want?

We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?  We should instead work
on important features -- like better integration of tree-sitter, for
example.

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

> Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
> this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
> if they want?
>
> We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
> whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
> and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?  We should instead work
> on important features -- like better integration of tree-sitter, for
> example.

Either way works for me: I wrote the code for my own personal use and
will be happy to keep it personal again.  I only installed it because
other people mentioned interest.

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
> grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
> things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
> adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.

Yes, if somebody volunteers to go over the old NEWS files to tag them up
(with quotes), then I'm all for restricting the searches.  (And perhaps
also restrict the searches to headings?)

These days we do always say 'foo', so this wouldn't be an additional
maintenance burden going forward, but somebody has to invest time in
doing this one time task.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

[Stefan Kangas]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
> this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
> if they want?

FWIW, I find this feature useful, so I hope that we will not remove it.
It's quite a time saver to not have to go scour NEWS every time.

> We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
> whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
> and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?

(I'm still in favour of obsoleting cdl.el, to discourage anyone from
wasting time on that.)