bug#38002: Please remove this joke

[Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl>]

On 2019-11-01, at 21:13, cpardo@imayhem.com wrote:

>> Marcin Borkowski:
>>
>> The problem is, this one particular joke isn't bad at all, quite the
>> opposite - irrespective whether one laughs at women or hacker's
>> stereotype of women.  (I think both interpretations are valid, and none
>> is too offensive for my taste.  The previous joke in the file is
>> definitely more offensive, for instance.)  IOW, I consider it a feature,
>> not a bug.  (And I repeated it to many of my friends, and we all had
>> a good laugh.)
>
> Who does the previous joke offend? Are you sure you are reading the

Well, apparently I expressed myself wrong - I should have said that some
people might consider it blasphemous, which is way worse than just
"offensive".  (I gave it some thought and I personally _think_ it's not,
though I'd definitely not tell it anyone - it's extremely bad taste.)

> correct one? The removed joke demeans women by describing them as
> unpredictable, irrational beings. If you enjoy that kind of humor, good

I don't entirely see why being unpredictable and irrational is
necessarily inferior to being predictable and rational.  There are cases
when these are exactly the qualities which may be needed.  And even if
not, _if_ we assume than women indeed possess these qualities (in some
statistical sense, of course), this does not make them "worse" than men
at all.  There are other qualities women may have than men lack, and all
that implies is that men and women are _different_, and neither sex
Pareto-dominates the other one, so to speak.

Besides, it is your interpretation (as I mentioned, I consider it
a valid one).  Another, equally valid one is that the jokes demeans
hackers by describing them as believing women are unpredictable and
irrational (whereas the truth is more complicated), and fear of women
might be somewhat implied.

Yet another interpretation would be that a joke is on a meta level, and
what is really the object of laughter is the simplistic _stereotype_ of
women.  This interpretation seems not to demean anyone.

> for you. But hosting it the distribution of one of the flagship software
> pieces of a project based on ethics if obviosly wrong.
>
>> This is not only false perspective, but it is plainly dangerous.
>> Pitting men against women (or women against men) is exactly what
>> feminists do, and it is one of the reasons feminism is such a poison for
>> the society.
>
> Feminism aims for equality of the sexes. Such poison.

I obviously do not share this belief.  And even if it did aim for
_equality_, actually defining it is crucial.  Some kinds of equality are
morally good.  Some are morally bad.  In a sense, you don't want "too
much equality".  (We had a certain movement towards it here in Eastern
Europe, btw.  It didn't end well.)

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl