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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, ncaprisunfan@gmail.com, 49261@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#49261: 28.0.50; File Locking Breaks Presumptuous Toolchains
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:42:28 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83zguydkyz.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87h7h6m1jh.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed,  07 Jul 2021 20:17:22 +0200)

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de,  ncaprisunfan@gmail.com,  49261@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 20:17:22 +0200
> 
> > Also, do we ever need this during loadup?  Because before files.el is
> > loaded by loadup, this function will not be available, so
> > unconditionally calling it from C without protection, not even
> > safe_call or somesuch, is not safe.
> 
> I'll try doing a "make bootstrap"...

Even if it currently works, it's unsafe, IMO, to not have any
protection there.  No one will remember that we rely on this not being
called early enough.

> > Last, but not least: do we care that now locking a file will cons
> > strings, even with the default value of lock-file-name-transforms?
> > That sounds like we are punishing the vast majority of users for the
> > benefit of the few who need the opt-in behavior.  Should we perhaps
> > avoid consing strings, or maybe even calling Lisp altogether, under
> > the default value of that option?
> 
> Hm...  I think for simplicity's sake, it makes sense to always call the
> Lisp code.  Having two places where we insert ".#" into a file name just
> seems error prone, long term.

My point is that this simplicity comes at a price.  We've been
consistently moving code from C primitives to Lisp, and by doing that
significantly increase the consing during even the simplest editing
operations.  All this consing adds up, with the result that Emacs
nowadays produces much more garbage, which then triggers frequent GC
cycles, which slow down Emacs.  It's a small wonder we see so many
people out there raising the GC threshold to dangerous levels.

So I'm asking whether the simplicity justifies the costs, here and
elsewhere.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-07-07 18:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-28 17:38 bug#49261: 28.0.50; File Locking Breaks Presumptuous Toolchains Mallchad Skeghyeph
2021-06-30 13:00 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-06-30 13:26   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-30 14:08     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
     [not found]       ` <CADrO7Mje3DstmjxutZcpx33jWJwgE_z+hGfJc4aON1CYOpyJxA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-01 10:55         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-01 12:58           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-30 16:07     ` Michael Albinus
2021-06-30 16:16       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-01 11:38         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-06-30 19:31   ` Juri Linkov
2021-07-01 16:57   ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-01 18:31     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-02 11:06       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-02 12:32         ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-07 16:01         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 16:07           ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-07 16:13             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 16:40               ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-07 16:57                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 16:55           ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-07 16:59             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 17:36               ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-07 18:08                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 18:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 18:50                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 19:40                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:03                   ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-08  6:03                     ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-08 19:53                       ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-09  6:30                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-09  8:28                           ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-09 10:45                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-09 11:01                               ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-09 16:31                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-12 13:53                                   ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-12 14:03                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12 14:37                                       ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-12 17:30                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12 17:35                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-12 17:38                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12 18:00                                               ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-12 18:25                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12 18:46                                                   ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-12 19:04                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-13 17:53                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-13 16:30                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-13 16:31                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-13 16:41                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-13 17:59                                                   ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-13 19:00                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-13 19:09                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-13 19:36                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-13 17:55                                                 ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-13 19:05                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-16 16:15                                                     ` Michael Albinus
2021-07-17 14:06                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:05                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 20:09                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:15                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 20:10                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 20:18                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:29                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:37                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 20:55                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 21:04                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 22:22                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08  0:09                                   ` bug#49261: Segfault during loadup Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08  6:35                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08 12:51                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-11  8:36                                     ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-11 10:21                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-11 15:25                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12  7:16                                           ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-12 12:07                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-12 14:50                                               ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-12 14:56                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-12 15:54                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-13 23:12                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-14  7:42                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-14 22:04                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-14 22:10                                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-07-14 12:36                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-14 22:24                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2021-07-15  6:13                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-11 11:32                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08  6:15                                   ` bug#49261: 28.0.50; File Locking Breaks Presumptuous Toolchains Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08  6:20                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08 12:44                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08 13:11                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08 13:13                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08  6:17                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08 12:42                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08 12:49                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08 13:16                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-08 13:34                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-08 16:47                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-10 16:25                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-10 17:04                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-10 17:15                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-10 17:20                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 18:02           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 18:17             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 18:20               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 18:42               ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-07-07 18:58                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 19:03                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-07 19:20                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 18:50               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-07 19:22                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen

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