bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Magnar Sveen]

Due to my weird norwegian keyboard, I'm trying to map my s-8 to [.

Doing a M-: (read-char) s-8 gives me the key value of 8388664.

Following that up with (keyboard-translate 8388664 ?\[) does not work,
since it fails the (characterp) test. Turns out that (max-char) is a C
function that returns the highest allowed keycode. On my Emacs, that
is 4194303.

Since (max-char) is a function and not a variable, and a C function at
that (not advisable when called from another C function (characterp)) -
I am left without options to rectify it. Or maybe I could use a hex
editor. :-)

So, is this a bug? Is it weird that max-char is a function? In C? Ought
4194303 chars be enough for anybody? That's up to you guys to decide.

Kind regards,
Magnar Sveen


In GNU Emacs 24.2.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin10.8.0, NS apple-appkit-1038.36)
 of 2012-09-04 on fi-bp-202.local
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.1038
Configured using:
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Recent input:
c s-8 <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> C-y C-x C-e s-8 C-_ 
C-a M-f - u n C-d C-e C-b C-w C-_ <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> <backspace> C-e C-x C-e s-8 s-8 C-_ C-_ 
C-_ C-_ C-_ C-e C-x C-e s-8 C-q s-8 C-_ C-_ M-_ M-_ 
M-_ M-_ C-d C-d C-d C-b <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b 
C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-b C-u C-n C-p C-p 
C-p C-p u n C-e C-x C-e C-a C-k C-b C-x C-e q s-8 s-8 
C-q s-8 <f1> f r e a d - c h a r <return> M-: ( r e 
a d - c h a r ) <return> s-8 <f1> k C-q <S-right> <tab> 
<return> C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-q s-8 M-: <up> <return> s-8 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-x b <return> C-x C-e <S-right> 
q M-: <up> <return> s-8 C-x C-e <S-left> <S-right> 
<tab> <tab> <return> <S-right> <up> <up> <return> C-n 
C-n C-n C-n <f1> f c h a r a c t e r p <return> <S-right> 
M-: ( m a x - x h a r <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> c h a r ) <return> M-: <up> C-g <f1> f 
m a x - c h a r <return> <S-right> <tab> <return> C-g 
q <f1> f c h a r a c t e r p <return> <S-right> <tab> 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-a M-w <S-tab> <return> C-g q M-x 
e m a c s - r e b <backspace> p o <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> r e p o r t <r
eturn>

Recent messages:
4194303 (#o17777777, #x3fffff)
Quit

windmove-do-window-select: No window right from selected window
mouse-2, RET: find function's definition
Quit
Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer.
mouse-2, RET: find function's definition
Copied to end of line
mouse-2, RET: find function's definition
Quit

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emacs)

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:42:27 +0100
> 
> Due to my weird norwegian keyboard, I'm trying to map my s-8 to [.
> 
> Doing a M-: (read-char) s-8 gives me the key value of 8388664.

Which is 800038 in hex.  Rings any bells?  (Hint: 38 hex is the digit
8.)

> Following that up with (keyboard-translate 8388664 ?\[) does not work,
> since it fails the (characterp) test. Turns out that (max-char) is a C
> function that returns the highest allowed keycode. On my Emacs, that
> is 4194303.
> 
> Since (max-char) is a function and not a variable, and a C function at
> that (not advisable when called from another C function (characterp)) -
> I am left without options to rectify it. Or maybe I could use a hex
> editor. :-)

Your s-8 is a character with a modifier.  max-char returns the max
value of a character, excluding any modifiers.  So that value has
nothing to do with your difficulties in binding s-8 to insert [.
Something entirely different is at work here, probably some problem in
the code that you used to do the key binding.  But since you didn't
show that code, it's hard to help you.

> So, is this a bug?

No.

> Is it weird that max-char is a function? In C?

That's precisely so people will be unable to change the value.  It's
immutable.

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Magnar Sveen]

Thanks for the quick response!

Eli Zaretskii writes:

>> Doing a M-: (read-char) s-8 gives me the key value of 8388664.
>
> Which is 800038 in hex.  Rings any bells?  (Hint: 38 hex is the digit
> 8.)

That makes sense, thanks.

> Your s-8 is a character with a modifier.  max-char returns the max
> value of a character, excluding any modifiers.  So that value has
> nothing to do with your difficulties in binding s-8 to insert [.
> Something entirely different is at work here, probably some problem in
> the code that you used to do the key binding.  But since you didn't
> show that code, it's hard to help you.

I did show the code:

    (keyboard-translate 8388664 ?\[)

I also tried

    (keyboard-translate ?\s-8 ?\[)

which of course is the same thing. They both fail at (characterp).

In my flailing, I also tried

    (keyboard-translate (kbd "s-8") ?\[)

No success with that one. Checking that I was not totally off, I tried

    (keyboard-translate ?\C-h ?\[)

which did work, while

    (keyboard-translate ?\C-8 ?\[)

did not. Not a character again. So it's not only super.

>> So, is this a bug?

> No.

Fair enough.

Any tips on how to actually translate keys where read-char returns a
value including the modifier then?

- Magnar

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
> Cc: 13599@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:44:58 +0100
> 
>     (keyboard-translate ?\C-h ?\[)
> 
> which did work, while
> 
>     (keyboard-translate ?\C-8 ?\[)
> 
> did not. Not a character again. So it's not only super.

keyboard-translate doesn't support keys with modifiers.  Use
global-set-key instead, after defining a function that inserts the [
character.

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Josh]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
[...]
>> Doing a M-: (read-char) s-8 gives me the key value of 8388664.
>
> Which is 800038 in hex.  Rings any bells?  (Hint: 38 hex is the digit
> 8.)
>
>> Following that up with (keyboard-translate 8388664 ?\[) does not work,
>> since it fails the (characterp) test. Turns out that (max-char) is a C
[...]
>> So, is this a bug?
>
> No.

At a minimum the fact that (characterp (read-char)) can ever return
nil indicates disagreement between the two functions about exactly
what a "character" is.  It would be good to reconcile this
disagreement in their documentation if nothing else.

Given the existence of read-key, is it necessary for read-char to be
able to return values greater than MAX_CHAR?  If it's indeed
necessary, would it be reasonable to add an optional parameter to
read-char for callers such as quoted-insert to specify that read-char
should return only values <= MAX_CHAR?

Josh

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:42:27 +0100
>>
>> Due to my weird norwegian keyboard, I'm trying to map my s-8 to [.
>>
>> Doing a M-: (read-char) s-8 gives me the key value of 8388664.
>
> Which is 800038 in hex.  Rings any bells?  (Hint: 38 hex is the digit
> 8.)
>
>> Following that up with (keyboard-translate 8388664 ?\[) does not work,
>> since it fails the (characterp) test. Turns out that (max-char) is a C
>> function that returns the highest allowed keycode. On my Emacs, that
>> is 4194303.
>>
>> Since (max-char) is a function and not a variable, and a C function at
>> that (not advisable when called from another C function (characterp)) -
>> I am left without options to rectify it. Or maybe I could use a hex
>> editor. :-)
>
> Your s-8 is a character with a modifier.  max-char returns the max
> value of a character, excluding any modifiers.  So that value has
> nothing to do with your difficulties in binding s-8 to insert [.
> Something entirely different is at work here, probably some problem in
> the code that you used to do the key binding.  But since you didn't
> show that code, it's hard to help you.
>
>> So, is this a bug?
>
> No.
>
>> Is it weird that max-char is a function? In C?
>
> That's precisely so people will be unable to change the value.  It's
> immutable.
>
>
>

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Magnar Sveen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 483 bytes --]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> keyboard-translate doesn't support keys with modifiers.  Use
> global-set-key instead, after defining a function that inserts the [
> character.
>

Yes, I've been using

    (define-key key-translation-map (kbd "s-8") (kbd "["))

It works in most cases. But unfortunately read-char does not care about
this translation, leaving lots of functions broken. That lead me to
keyboard-translate, then here.

- Magnar

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bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 07:13:50 +0100
> Cc: 13599@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Yes, I've been using
> 
>     (define-key key-translation-map (kbd "s-8") (kbd "["))
> 
> It works in most cases. But unfortunately read-char does not care about
> this translation, leaving lots of functions broken.

Why do you care about read-char?  What functions are broken after the
above?  And why do you use key-translation-map and not global-map (or
global-set-key)?

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Josh <josh@foxtail.org>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:22:20 -0800
> Cc: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>, 13599@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> At a minimum the fact that (characterp (read-char)) can ever return
> nil indicates disagreement between the two functions about exactly
> what a "character" is.

Yes, "character" is an overloaded term.

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Magnar Sveen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 622 bytes --]

Eli Zaretskii writes:

>> From: Magnar Sveen <magnars@gmail.com>
>>
>>     (define-key key-translation-map (kbd "s-8") (kbd "["))
>>
>> It works in most cases. But unfortunately read-char does not care about
>> this translation, leaving lots of functions broken.
>
> Why do you care about read-char?

Because it is widely used in commands, and now is broken.

> What functions are broken after the above?

Off the top of my head, (paredit-backslash) and (quoted-insert).

> And why do you use key-translation-map and not global-map (or
global-set-key)?

I had a hope that it was lower level than global-set-key.

- Magnar

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bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Stefan Monnier]

> Yes, I've been using
>     (define-key key-translation-map (kbd "s-8") (kbd "["))
> It works in most cases. But unfortunately read-char does not care about
> this translation, leaving lots of functions broken. That lead me to
> keyboard-translate, then here.

I think the problem is in read-char.

You might like to try the following redefinition of read-char, which I've
been using locally for a while (i.e. tested for a reasonably long time
but only by a single user):

   (defun read-char (&optional prompt) ;; (inherit-input-method seconds)
     "Read a character from the command input (keyboard or macro).
   It is returned as a number.
   If the character has modifiers, they are resolved and reflected to the
   character code if possible (e.g. C-SPC -> 0).
   
   If the user generates an event which is not a character (i.e. a mouse
   click or function key event), `read-char' signals an error.  As an
   exception, switch-frame events are put off until non-character events
   can be read.
   If you want to read non-character events, or ignore them, call
   `read-event' or `read-char-exclusive' instead.
   
   If the optional argument PROMPT is non-nil, display that as a prompt.
   If the optional argument INHERIT-INPUT-METHOD is non-nil and some
   input method is turned on in the current buffer, that input method
   is used for reading a character.
   If the optional argument SECONDS is non-nil, it should be a number
   specifying the maximum number of seconds to wait for input.  If no
   input arrives in that time, return nil.  SECONDS may be a
   floating-point value."
     ;; if (! NILP (prompt))
     ;;   message_with_string ("%s", prompt, 0);
     ;; val = read_filtered_event (1, 1, 1, ! NILP (inherit_input_method),
     ;;                            seconds);
     ;; return (NILP (val) ? Qnil
     ;;         : make_number (char_resolve_modifier_mask (XINT (val))));
     (let ((inherit-input-method nil) (seconds nil))
       ;; `read-key' doesn't explicitly inhibit the input method, but in
       ;; practice it disables at least quail input methods because it
       ;; binds overriding-terminal-local-map.
       (if inherit-input-method (error "Not implemented"))
       (catch 'read-char-exclusive
         (let ((timer (when seconds
                        (run-with-timer seconds nil
                                        (lambda ()
                                          (throw 'read-char-exclusive nil))))))
           (unwind-protect
               (let ((event (read-key prompt)))
                 (if (numberp event)
                     event
                   (setq unread-command-events
                         (nconc (mapcar 'identity (this-single-command-raw-keys))
                                unread-command-events))
                   (error "Non-character input-event")))
             (when timer (cancel-timer timer)))))))

-- Stefan

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Stefan Monnier]

>> (define-key key-translation-map (kbd "s-8") (kbd "["))
>> It works in most cases. But unfortunately read-char does not care about
>> this translation, leaving lots of functions broken.
> Why do you care about read-char?

Because he wants to be able to type [ (which isn't on his keyboard so
he wants to use s-8 for that) even in response to a read-char.

> What functions are broken after the above?

None are broken, but some don't pay attention to key-translation-map
(e.g. all those that use read-char).

> And why do you use key-translation-map and not global-map (or
> global-set-key)?

Probably so that he can use bindings such as C-x [


        Stefan

bug#13599: 24.2; (max-char) is too low (and hard to change)

[Magnar Sveen]

Stefan Monnier writes:

> I think the problem is in read-char.
>
> You might like to try the following redefinition of read-char, which I've
> been using locally for a while (i.e. tested for a reasonably long time
> but only by a single user):
>
> <snip>

Thank you, Stefan, that did help.

Since quoted-insert calls read-char from C code, that one still won't
work with the redefined read-char - but my paredit-backslash woes are
over, so that is a definite step forward. Thanks!

- Magnar