From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>
Cc: 40774@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ndame@protonmail.com
Subject: bug#40774: Error messages shouldn't be hidden when the user is idle
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 18:48:24 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <831r2gmox3.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86v8ztfuga.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:18:29 +0200)
> From: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>
> Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 40774@debbugs.gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:18:29 +0200
>
> >> > Btw, what does the change of the order between the call of
> >> > clear-message-function and setting echo_area_buffer[0] to nil mean,
> >> > compatibility-wise? won't it also produce different results, even if
> >> > the return value is nil?
> >>
> >> When the return value is nil, it will still clear the echo area.
> >
> > That wasn't what I asked. I asked whether the change in the order
> > could matter. Specifically, we now set echo_area_buffer[0] to nil
> > after we run clear-message-function, not before. Can that affect
> > some customization of clear-message-function?
>
> Actually, it should not affect customizations because such customizations
> should not touch the echo-area. It's the task of clear_message
> to handle the echo-area.
Isn't there some Lisp-visible effect of that, like that the echo-area
will appear empty after the assignment? If so, then the
clear-message-function was previously running with the echo-area
buffer nil, but now it won't.
> >> > IOW, shouldn't we provide some completely different optional feature
> >> > for this use case? Like a special buffer that pops up or a special
> >> > frame? Echo-area is not suited for showing large chunks of text, and
> >> > my gut feeling is that we will bump into problems on this path. E.g.,
> >> > what happens when there are enough accumulated messages that they can
> >> > no longer be shown with the maximum allowed height of the mini-window?
> >>
> >> This is exactly what functions bound to clear-message-function intended to do.
> >
> > ??? This function is about _clearing_ the echo-area, whereas I was
> > talking about the _display_ in the echo-area. I'm saying that I'm not
> > sure echo-area display is suited for the jobs that this bug wants it
> > to do. As an example, I asked what would happen when the echo-area
> > can no longer be resized to accommodate all the messages that were not
> > cleared.
>
> clear-message-function can handle not only echo-area but also e.g.
> the minibuffer messages. In case of the returned value, by using
> 'dont-clear-message' it can sometimes tell the function clear_message
> to not clear the echo-area, so there are no resizing problems.
> It doesn't add more lines to the existing echo-area.
I gave an example of how using this for that purpose could be a
problem, and you responded only to that example. But the problem that
bothers me is much more general, and you are silent about that larger
problem.
I'm asking once again: aren't we trying to use echo-area messages or
minibuffer messages displayed in the mini-window for a job that they
weren't intended to do: showing large amounts of messages at the same
time?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-13 16:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-04-22 16:21 bug#40774: Error messages shouldn't be hidden when the user is idle ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 16:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-04-22 16:38 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 17:08 ` Drew Adams
2020-04-22 17:35 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 16:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 17:38 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 18:21 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 18:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 18:43 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 18:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 18:53 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 19:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 19:10 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-22 19:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-04-22 19:35 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-23 5:58 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-04-23 22:16 ` Juri Linkov
2020-08-20 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-05 18:54 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-05 19:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-05 20:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-05 21:29 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-06 5:49 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-06 9:31 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-07 20:51 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-08 12:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-08 19:21 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-08 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-12 19:19 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-12 19:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-12 20:18 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-13 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-12-13 18:50 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-13 19:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-14 8:35 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-14 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-14 20:54 ` Juri Linkov
2021-12-15 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-04-23 15:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-12-08 19:18 ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-22 22:05 ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-23 4:38 ` ndame via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
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