unofficial mirror of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 13149@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru
Subject: bug#13149: 24.3.50; Emacs thinks file was changed outside Emacs, but it was not
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:35:05 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <50F9C009.9060708@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83a9s67wlr.fsf@gnu.org>

On 01/17/13 23:56, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Who said anything was actually written to the file?  You'd need
> 'fsync' to be sure, don't you?

That depends on what one means by "actually written".  :-)

POSIX says a 'write' must result in st_mtime being updated
some time before the file's time stamp is used (and 'fstat'
and 'stat' both count as uses).  It is not required that the
written data or the updated st_mtime physically be stored on
nonvolatile storage; if the system crashes, the updates might
get lost.]

Also, it's not required that st_mtime must be updated to the
exact time stamp of the write -- it can be updated to a later
time stamp, so long as the later time stamp comes before st_mtime's
first use.  But the point is that st_mtime must be updated
"in memory", so to speak, just as the file's data must get
updated "in memory", so that any uses of the file see the
new st_mtime and the new data that got written.

Here, we seem to have some cases where a write can occur
but st_mtime is not updated before the next stat or fstat.
I don't yet know how to characterize these cases, or how to
work around them.  Even Emacs's old approach (allow up to
1 second of slop) seems like it won't work in some cases
that have been reported here: over 2 seconds of slop in
<http://bugs.gnu.org/13149#115>, and over one minute of
slop in <http://bugs.gnu.org/13149##100>!

One approach that I've been toying with is that
Emacs could inspect the file system type, and if the file
system is known to be reliable (ext2, ufs, zfs, ...) we stick
with the new behavior in the trunk which uses fstat with no slop,
but otherwise we fall back on the Emacs-24 behavior, using stat
with 1 second of slop.  This won't allow the instances of
longer-than-1-second slops that we've seen reported here,
but maybe that's good enough.

I'm not particularly happy with this idea, but there is
a limit to what Emacs can do to work around filesystem bugs.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-01-18 21:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-12-11 21:51 bug#13149: 24.3.50; Emacs thinks file was changed outside Emacs, but it was not Drew Adams
2012-12-11 22:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-11 22:54   ` Drew Adams
2013-01-14  5:10     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-14 14:57       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-14 17:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-14 22:22           ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-14 18:28         ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-14 22:20           ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-15  6:45             ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-15  8:54               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-15 17:31                 ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-15 21:38                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-15 21:47                     ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-15 22:11                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-15 22:38                         ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-15 23:09                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-15 23:44                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-16  5:57                               ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-17 10:32                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-17 17:05                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-18  4:15                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  7:49                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-17 21:14                                   ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-18  4:55                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  5:26                                       ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-17 21:33                                   ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-18  4:36                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  5:01                                       ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-18  5:10                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  5:25                                           ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-18  5:54                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  6:22                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18  7:56                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-18 14:45                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-18 21:35                                               ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2013-01-18 22:52                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-19  0:55                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-19  1:09                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-19  2:37                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-19  4:02                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-01-19  4:51                                                           ` Paul Eggert
     [not found]                                                             ` <DEB91990BBBB4255BFB466956EB54214@us.oracl!e.com>
     [not found]                                                             ` <DEB91990BBBB4255BFB466956! EB54214@us.oracl!>
     [not found]                                                             ` <DEB91990BBBB4255BFB466956EB54214@us.oracl!>
     [not found]                                                               ` <e.com@[87.69.4.28]>
     [not found]                                                                 ` <83wq! urc1u3.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                             ` <DEB91990BBBB4255BFB466956EB54214@us.oracl! e.com>
2013-01-19  5:02                                                             ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 16:32                                                               ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 16:43                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 16:49                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 18:43                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-01 19:19                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 19:36                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-01 22:15                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2013-02-02  9:41                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-02 16:06                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 19:38                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-01 22:13                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 21:05                                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2013-02-01 22:14                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-02-01 22:22                                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2013-02-02  9:43                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-19  8:39                                                                         ` Uwe Siart
2013-03-19 16:55                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-19 17:50                                                                             ` Uwe Siart
2014-02-06  1:40                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2014-02-06  6:12                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2014-02-06  6:19                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-02  9:38                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-02 19:31                                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2013-01-18  7:57                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-17 17:16                                 ` David Engster

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=50F9C009.9060708@cs.ucla.edu \
    --to=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=13149@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=dgutov@yandex.ru \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).