bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Nick]

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From: nickleeh@foxmail.com
To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:18:27 +0800
Message-ID: <87si9nr7sc.fsf@NICK-PC.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>
--text follows this line--

From the official emacs manual:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html

2.1 Where can I download Emacs?

Pre-compiled versions are distributed from ftp.gnu.org mirrors. Emacs
binaries are distributed as zip files, digitally signed by the developer
who built them. Generally most users will want the file
emacs-24.5-bin-i686-pc-mingw.zip for the 32-bit build, and
emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip for the 64-bit build. 

However, there's no 64-bit emacs for windows on
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/

So please provide 64-bit Emacs for Windows, or modify the emacs manual.

(I am using Emacs 64-bit for Windows built by a third-party.)
Thank you.

Best regards,
Nick



In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2015-05-17 on KAEL
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/z/emacs --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --target=x86_64-w64-mingw32 --build=x86_64-w64-mingw32 --with-wide-int
 --with-jpeg --with-xpm --with-png --with-tiff --with-rsvg --with-xml2
 --with-gnutls --with-sound=yes --with-file-notification=yes
 --without-dbus --without-imagemagick 'CFLAGS=-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer
 -g0 -pipe' 'LDFLAGS=-static-libgcc -static-libstdc++ -static -s
 -Wl,-s''

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: CHS
  locale-coding-system: cp936

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  helm-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/el-get-config.el (source)...
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/el-get/color-theme/themes/color-theme-example.el (source)...done
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/el-get/color-theme/themes/color-theme-library.el (source)...done
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/el-get-config.el (source)...done
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/appearance.el (source)...done
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/helm-config.el (source)...
ad-handle-definition: `tramp-read-passwd' got redefined
Loading c:/Users/Nick/.emacs.d/helm-config.el (source)...done
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
call-interactively: End of buffer

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader
sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils winner find-func
helm-mode helm-files rx image-dired tramp tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs
trampver shell pcomplete format-spec dired-x dired-aux ffap thingatpt
helm-buffers helm-elscreen helm-tags helm-bookmark helm-adaptive
helm-info bookmark helm-locate helm-help helm-match-plugin helm-grep
helm-regexp helm-plugin grep helm-external helm-net browse-url xml url
url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
url-domsuf url-util url-parse auth-source gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr
password-cache url-vars mailcap helm-utils compile comint ansi-color
ring helm advice easy-mmode helm-source eieio byte-opt eieio-core
helm-config helm-easymenu helm-aliases solarized-dark-theme solarized
dash helm-autoloads cl-macs color-theme wid-edit .loaddefs el-get
el-get-autoloading el-get-list-packages el-get-dependencies el-get-build
el-get-status pp el-get-methods el-get-fossil el-get-svn el-get-pacman
el-get-github-zip el-get-github-tar el-get-http-zip el-get-http-tar
el-get-hg el-get-go el-get-git-svn el-get-fink el-get-emacswiki
el-get-http el-get-notify help-mode easymenu el-get-emacsmirror
el-get-github el-get-git el-get-elpa package epg-config el-get-darcs
el-get-cvs el-get-bzr el-get-brew el-get-builtin el-get-apt-get
el-get-recipes el-get-byte-compile el-get-custom el-get-core autoload
help-fns lisp-mnt bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra cconv cl gv dired
edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs cl-lib time-date china-util tooltip electric
uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp
w32-common-fns disp-table w32-win w32-vars tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register
page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew
greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice
loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process w32notify w32
multi-tty emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 319023 8947)
 (symbols 56 30600 0)
 (miscs 48 54 114)
 (strings 32 54729 6558)
 (string-bytes 1 1352457)
 (vectors 16 21083)
 (vector-slots 8 541984 1952)
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 (intervals 56 556 0)
 (buffers 960 14))

------------------
Best regards / mit freundlichen Grüssen,

Nick

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bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Nick " <nickleeh@foxmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:23:52 +0800
> 
> From the official emacs manual:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html

That FAQ is obsolete.  Don't use it.  The relevant information is in
the Emacs manual and in the Emacs FAQ.

> 2.1 Where can I download Emacs?
> 
> Pre-compiled versions are distributed from ftp.gnu.org mirrors. Emacs
> binaries are distributed as zip files, digitally signed by the developer
> who built them. Generally most users will want the file
> emacs-24.5-bin-i686-pc-mingw.zip for the 32-bit build, and
> emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip for the 64-bit build. 
> 
> However, there's no 64-bit emacs for windows on
> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/

Windows binaries on the GNU FTP site are produced by volunteers.  We
as a project have no control on whether they are available or not.  We
encourage Emacs users to build their own Emacs, according to
instructions in nt/INSTALL.

> So please provide 64-bit Emacs for Windows, or modify the emacs manual.
> 
> (I am using Emacs 64-bit for Windows built by a third-party.)

Please consider becoming a volunteer who'd upload 64-bit binaries to
the GNU FTP site, or lobby others to do that.  Perhaps the person(s)
who produced the binaries you are using would like to also upload them
to the GNU site.

Anyway, I see no need to change anything in the documentation, as it
never says you can expect finding the latest binaries there, or any
binaries.

Thanks.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Stefan Monnier]

> Anyway, I see no need to change anything in the documentation, as it
> never says you can expect finding the latest binaries there, or any
> binaries.

The wording hints at the expected availability at ftp.gnu.org of a file
with name emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip.
So I think we should remove this wording and keep it less precise.
Obviously, it would also be better if someone could upload the
corresponding binary,


        Stfean

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Nicolas Petton]

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Anyway, I see no need to change anything in the documentation, as it
>> never says you can expect finding the latest binaries there, or any
>> binaries.
>
> The wording hints at the expected availability at ftp.gnu.org of a file
> with name emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip.
> So I think we should remove this wording and keep it less precise.
> Obviously, it would also be better if someone could upload the
> corresponding binary,

While I'm really bad at anything Windows-related, I could fire up a VM
and build Emacs 24.5, provided that there are some Windows-specific
instructions somewhere.

Nico
-- 
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
> Cc: Nick <nickleeh@foxmail.com>, 20851@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 22:20:13 +0200
> 
> While I'm really bad at anything Windows-related, I could fire up a VM
> and build Emacs 24.5, provided that there are some Windows-specific
> instructions somewhere.

The instructions are in nt/INSTALL.

Thanks.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: Nick <nickleeh@foxmail.com>,  20851@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:10:59 -0400
> 
> The wording hints at the expected availability at ftp.gnu.org of a file
> with name emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip.
> So I think we should remove this wording and keep it less precise.

Remove that obsolete FAQ instead, it's useless.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Nicolas Petton]

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
>> Cc: Nick <nickleeh@foxmail.com>, 20851@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 22:20:13 +0200
>> 
>> While I'm really bad at anything Windows-related, I could fire up a VM
>> and build Emacs 24.5, provided that there are some Windows-specific
>> instructions somewhere.
>
> The instructions are in nt/INSTALL.

Thank you, I saw that already, but would that be all there is to do?
There is no testing required for specific versions of Windows, or
anything like that?  No specific packaging either?

Nico
-- 
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Dani Moncayo]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
>> Cc: Nick <nickleeh@foxmail.com>, 20851@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 22:20:13 +0200
>>
>> While I'm really bad at anything Windows-related, I could fire up a VM
>> and build Emacs 24.5, provided that there are some Windows-specific
>> instructions somewhere.
>
> The instructions are in nt/INSTALL.

?? But that file only refers to the MinGW project, which AFAIK does
not (yet?) provides support for 64-bit executables.

BTW, I also wouldn't mind to build & upload a 64-bit binary package for
MS-Windows, but so far, I've not found a "suitable" way of doing it.

I tried MSYS2.  It comes with a pretty convenient package manager
(pacman) and a good catalog of packages.  So I easily managed to
make a suitable build environment and then a 64-bit Emacs with support
for Images, GnuTLS, XML, etc.

But I found a problem: the GCC that comes with MSYS2 (from the
MinGW-w64 project) is configured for posix threads (instead of native
w32 threads).  Therefore, the runtime environment for that Emacs would
have this requirements:

1. "libwinpthread-1.dll" should be on PATH.
2. The runtime libraries used by Emacs should be configured for posix
threads too.

So, I'd prefer to make a "w32-threads" build, to get rid of that extra
dependency.  But I still haven't found a convenient way of doing that.
(I must admit that this is not among my current priorities, though)

-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, nickleeh@foxmail.com, 20851@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 22:45:20 +0200
> 
> > The instructions are in nt/INSTALL.
> 
> Thank you, I saw that already, but would that be all there is to do?

Yes.

> There is no testing required for specific versions of Windows, or
> anything like that?

The Emacs test suite runs OK with the Windows versions, although there
are 2 icalendar tests that are known to fail (because they rely on
Posix TZ features).

> No specific packaging either?

You run "make install prefix=/some/where", where prefix= names an
empty directory, and then zip that directory.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 23:21:55 +0200
> From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
> Cc: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>, nickleeh@foxmail.com, 20851@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > The instructions are in nt/INSTALL.
> 
> ?? But that file only refers to the MinGW project, which AFAIK does
> not (yet?) provides support for 64-bit executables.

The part that explains how to install MinGW and MSYS is specific to
mingw.org, but the rest isn't, AFAIK.

I agree that it would be very good if some user of MinGW64/MSYS2
augmented those instructions with that information.  I even asked one
or two of them at some point, AFAIR.  But none did.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Nick]

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Hi Eli,


Thank you very much for your response. 


1. Since the FAQ is obsolete, it might be a good idea to remove it or mark it as "obsolete/deprecated"; or it is misleading. 


2. I'm using the 64-bit binary from:
http://emacsbinw64.sourceforge.net/


I wish I could be the person who build this kind of port for others; however, my knowledge and skill in compiling is limited. I think the author would be glad to upload his build to GNU ftp site. Maybe you or anyone from GNU could contact him and tell him instructions/requirement to upload file to the GNU site.


------------------
Best regards / mit freundlichen Grüssen,

Nick


 




------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Eli Zaretskii";<eliz@gnu.org>;
Date:  Sat, Jun 20, 2015 01:33 AM
To:  "Nick "<nickleeh@foxmail.com>; 
Cc:  "20851"<20851@debbugs.gnu.org>; 
Subject:  Re: bug#20851: 24.5;	No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.



> From: "Nick " <nickleeh@foxmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 00:23:52 +0800
> 
> From the official emacs manual:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html

That FAQ is obsolete.  Don't use it.  The relevant information is in
the Emacs manual and in the Emacs FAQ.

> 2.1 Where can I download Emacs?
> 
> Pre-compiled versions are distributed from ftp.gnu.org mirrors. Emacs
> binaries are distributed as zip files, digitally signed by the developer
> who built them. Generally most users will want the file
> emacs-24.5-bin-i686-pc-mingw.zip for the 32-bit build, and
> emacs-24.5-bin-x86_64-w64-mingw32.zip for the 64-bit build. 
> 
> However, there's no 64-bit emacs for windows on
> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/

Windows binaries on the GNU FTP site are produced by volunteers.  We
as a project have no control on whether they are available or not.  We
encourage Emacs users to build their own Emacs, according to
instructions in nt/INSTALL.

> So please provide 64-bit Emacs for Windows, or modify the emacs manual.
> 
> (I am using Emacs 64-bit for Windows built by a third-party.)

Please consider becoming a volunteer who'd upload 64-bit binaries to
the GNU FTP site, or lobby others to do that.  Perhaps the person(s)
who produced the binaries you are using would like to also upload them
to the GNU site.

Anyway, I see no need to change anything in the documentation, as it
never says you can expect finding the latest binaries there, or any
binaries.

Thanks.

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bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Glenn Morris]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> The Emacs test suite runs OK with the Windows versions, although there
> are 2 icalendar tests that are known to fail (because they rely on
> Posix TZ features).

Sounds like those tests should use skip-unless/expected-result.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Glenn Morris]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Remove that obsolete FAQ instead, it's useless.

I think you're in the best position to know, so if you feel this way, I
think we should do that. Remove it from the Emacs repo now, and from the
web-pages either now or at next release.


(I have very similar feelings about the main Emacs FAQ, which is very
crufty. My vague strategy there has been to remove the more ridiculously
out-of-date bits with the hope that will be nothing left at one point...)

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Cc: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>,  nickleeh@foxmail.com,  20851@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:24:31 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > The Emacs test suite runs OK with the Windows versions, although there
> > are 2 icalendar tests that are known to fail (because they rely on
> > Posix TZ features).
> 
> Sounds like those tests should use skip-unless/expected-result.

Thanks, done.

bug#20851: 24.5; No 64-bit Emacs for Windows while the manual said there is.

[Glenn Morris]

Version: 25.1

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> So I think we should remove this wording and keep it less precise.

Done in the source. Web pages get updated at next release.