From: Philipp <p.stephani2@gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: 48584@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#48584: 28.0.50; Incorrect hook ordering between local and global hooks with depth
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:37:16 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <06A4701F-78A8-4904-AD18-ECBE4617ECDC@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87o8cjuzk7.fsf@gnus.org>
> Am 06.06.2021 um 11:12 schrieb Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>:
>
> Philipp <p.stephani2@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> If I'm reading run_hook_with_args correctly, it'll loop over the local
>>> hook first (in order), and when it happens upon a t in that value, it'll
>>> then loop over the global value (in order), and then finish up the rest
>>> of the local ones.
>>
>> Yes - and that's a reasonable behavior to expect, and we should document it.
>
> I think it's an implementation detail that users should not depend on.
> Where that `t' ends up being depends on many subtle things like the
> order of your add-hook/remove-hook calls in your .emacs file.
What we think about this doesn't matter much. As I explained, people depend on observable/observed behavior.
Besides, hook ordering for abnormal hooks is crucial, so we can't just say "don't depend on it."
>
>> Correct hook ordering is crucial for abnormal hooks. We already rely
>> on the very specific ordering behavior several times in the Emacs
>> codebase alone. I've searched a bit through the Emacs codebase, and
>> found the following places where Emacs runs an abnormal hook with
>> `run-hook-with-args-until-success/failure' that also gains a local
>> part somewhere the codebase:
>
> [...]
>
>> That is, we rely on this "undefined" behavior already in very basic
>> operations such as saving buffers to file. In Eldoc, we even
>> explicitly tell users to add functions to the local part of this
>> abnormal hook (eldoc-documentation-functions), thereby telling them to
>> rely on "undefined" behavior! This hopefully shows that the behavior
>> is far from being undefined.
>
> I don't think it shows any such thing.
Why not? Clearly there are hooks that are both abnormal and partially-local in the Emacs codebase, and for those hooks this issue arises.
>
> I think it'd be a good idea to implement (and document) something in
> this area that actually allows users to control the hook running order
> properly, which currently just isn't possible.
>
Yes, and arguably the current implementation with the "shadow" ordering stored in a private symbol property is already kind of a hack. However, the second-best option is still to document the current behavior. As I've tried to explain, just stating "it's undefined" won't fly.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-05 18:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-05-22 11:21 bug#48584: 28.0.50; Incorrect hook ordering between local and global hooks with depth Philipp
2021-05-25 20:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-05-25 20:23 ` Philipp Stephani
2021-05-26 21:50 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-06-04 13:20 ` Philipp
2021-06-06 9:12 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-07-05 18:37 ` Philipp [this message]
2021-07-06 13:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
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