From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Philipp
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs
Subject: bug#48584: 28.0.50;
Incorrect hook ordering between local and global hooks with depth
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:37:16 +0200
Message-ID: <06A4701F-78A8-4904-AD18-ECBE4617ECDC@gmail.com>
References: <871r9uefvy.fsf@gnus.org>
<87bl8xb1vg.fsf@gnus.org>
<87o8cjuzk7.fsf@gnus.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\))
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214";
logging-data="20155"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io"
Cc: 48584@debbugs.gnu.org
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen
Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 05 20:38:10 2021
Return-path:
Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org
Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17])
by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.92)
(envelope-from )
id 1m0TTu-00051Q-OF
for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 20:38:10 +0200
Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41584 helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
(envelope-from )
id 1m0TTt-0006Pc-Nq
for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:38:09 -0400
Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49666)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from )
id 1m0TTm-0006PU-CU
for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:38:02 -0400
Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:35108)
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from )
id 1m0TTm-0002ki-3H
for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:38:02 -0400
Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from ) id 1m0TTl-0002wX-TL
for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:38:01 -0400
X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org
Resent-From: Philipp
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit"
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Resent-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:38:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID:
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 48584
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
Original-Received: via spool by 48584-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B48584.162551024511266
(code B ref 48584); Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:38:01 +0000
Original-Received: (at 48584) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2021 18:37:25 +0000
Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46654 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from )
id 1m0TTB-0002ve-2i
for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:37:25 -0400
Original-Received: from mail-wm1-f50.google.com ([209.85.128.50]:51106)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from ) id 1m0TT9-0002vR-OH
for 48584@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:37:24 -0400
Original-Received: by mail-wm1-f50.google.com with SMTP id o22so12001150wms.0
for <48584@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 11:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
bh=og9+5sdwq7ocDmTbUyT8UJR/NolSjLJ7FHwGz3UunPc=;
b=udE/lFWItVNEVhQZtlczgCNkWFQGn8kuYCSTrfA7eEy10BLp5ktzx0ioruTBGeTGKn
UP65gXbLjNFPYMNvOphgAkoJPAbBJJHH3zLbMU430oZziiqmJbR3ciRYK35KBTTUUj1C
1Tkbt/nBK9Qnglt4qG5K10L+ZPpZF+NwFuccOe8rMtuSK+9kLNxbzRSl0qHwiYt3uasN
nbHQa3hxws53Liem2h6HYhhTd00863RIz9lNU+7d1Sas2wnc5geeFAOWrKaiVjKXaqlB
Ax/eeYfWk79UmwKqHVFq1eZPpIPuVuVeN2b+ymwdMulmHxW5ad8gDBLQbiXd/1zH9uUI
1H4Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
bh=og9+5sdwq7ocDmTbUyT8UJR/NolSjLJ7FHwGz3UunPc=;
b=lWeaWfco1b1v9qTYnRTaiHNVcg8c6QQFx/2R3FKYDj4i9LUcMPhlbrN2nS2KsHr5//
toPlrMfKQAbiWUXfWZO8qEKZkhhv0+y1NAfJoU3YOxc63e0LLVwguC4is4gjre26ksFW
wuiIaDR2hv5W4qdjl+rhr1coiA//1Zb9KMKihF7FhQEogiLZUqfvwCQABTWTL2ra0bCM
143tzKsIGOdrI8haAO1WpA/pGskNPGmSnDSbl2mHTIESL4R0h4KECccnIuzDN8gETsCI
ht+m+ScJIuwN+iBty8bUddD6AgCmuTyUMW63tCVK2GZ4zWzZvbqJZHH0N6Q8C+GRjXjh
Xefg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Vfyijh+7lX8qelS05GI2RH6Zk3CD438tgPU/TNvJfO74nx3m4
MWwSCRcRJKMotUPqwLfBlOP9A0e+LNUY0Q==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdnTHOR9d1l4oFXe5kGdlgodU7AwChjBuzC0rzmOMAuhrAUV2iPJvEguMkDNmNaUCjeWlAiA==
X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c449:: with SMTP id l9mr466186wmi.98.1625510237651;
Mon, 05 Jul 2021 11:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
Original-Received: from smtpclient.apple ([46.128.198.100])
by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l17sm261855wmq.3.2021.07.05.11.37.16
(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
Mon, 05 Jul 2021 11:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <87o8cjuzk7.fsf@gnus.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
the Swiss army knife of text editors"
List-Unsubscribe: ,
List-Archive:
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Subscribe: ,
Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org
Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs"
Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:209483
Archived-At:
> Am 06.06.2021 um 11:12 schrieb Lars Ingebrigtsen :
>=20
> Philipp writes:
>=20
>>> If I'm reading run_hook_with_args correctly, it'll loop over the =
local
>>> hook first (in order), and when it happens upon a t in that value, =
it'll
>>> then loop over the global value (in order), and then finish up the =
rest
>>> of the local ones.
>>=20
>> Yes - and that's a reasonable behavior to expect, and we should =
document it.
>=20
> I think it's an implementation detail that users should not depend on.
> Where that `t' ends up being depends on many subtle things like the
> order of your add-hook/remove-hook calls in your .emacs file.
What we think about this doesn't matter much. As I explained, people =
depend on observable/observed behavior.
Besides, hook ordering for abnormal hooks is crucial, so we can't just =
say "don't depend on it."
>=20
>> Correct hook ordering is crucial for abnormal hooks. We already rely
>> on the very specific ordering behavior several times in the Emacs
>> codebase alone. I've searched a bit through the Emacs codebase, and
>> found the following places where Emacs runs an abnormal hook with
>> `run-hook-with-args-until-success/failure' that also gains a local
>> part somewhere the codebase:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
>> That is, we rely on this "undefined" behavior already in very basic
>> operations such as saving buffers to file. In Eldoc, we even
>> explicitly tell users to add functions to the local part of this
>> abnormal hook (eldoc-documentation-functions), thereby telling them =
to
>> rely on "undefined" behavior! This hopefully shows that the behavior
>> is far from being undefined.
>=20
> I don't think it shows any such thing.
Why not? Clearly there are hooks that are both abnormal and =
partially-local in the Emacs codebase, and for those hooks this issue =
arises.
>=20
> I think it'd be a good idea to implement (and document) something in
> this area that actually allows users to control the hook running order
> properly, which currently just isn't possible.
>=20
Yes, and arguably the current implementation with the "shadow" ordering =
stored in a private symbol property is already kind of a hack. However, =
the second-best option is still to document the current behavior. As =
I've tried to explain, just stating "it's undefined" won't fly.