From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id KBRFKWxnHGTLVwAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:51:24 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id eP0VKWxnHGTSyAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:51:24 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6179D1AD16 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:51:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pfMGx-0006CA-KX; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:50:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pfMGv-0006Bh-OQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:50:33 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pfMGu-0006u9-1Q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 10:50:33 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pfMGp-0006JX-Lq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:50:27 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: org-ctags land grab Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2023 21:50:19 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87o7omg4ie.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <87pm91ngb8.fsf@localhost> <87jzz8f3re.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <87mt43agk6.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87mt43agk6.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 28 X-Spam_score: 2.8 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1679583084; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=PQ07IV12cdI4CnhLfYQDuUdNBCGy2kaXVgajyEMVHcKruTUDABajqcZprZckWwgfZYneea kY9Ojl5hnZcH49tiDKkEK6Ab2NHtRd07al6p438LeJyxANYTkwAeRdiw2hCYCfdMqkC8nF tlnxTJqW9Grv+7EWrula1BWIucKc+Demxl3pWxvuNfOadL+zNK4hC0rl2EUn5oqobju+eR 6M/eLpjWbmBS4lxVe2ZDFF5nZXmreHoLnFyv80aU65uGrevsMFfT4BEJYTFsTV/Z5YnheJ W0BbGhg7E/SAy2H+9yaRHHqt2/sj8rGM01rDKlPHqblJB4tCCerHhuywY+1flQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1679583084; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=H69zj+VaU5eVthb0TR/SMpeQgDZOLXgQEZaXoRivva8=; b=ZdeyLzysrKhmu8h+0jXniWfjfyChkYXuOmVMTlDF+9HugbqYm7PGvhiPnZQC+z+r64DaIr 8q22eXvIygwlTC5SzGSFDCEGLqraGAKZfF5g1mVYcMB+julAkeCyWCPehcX4VBv1yPQ2zY qBgwM529SFbhB/7jnyQbeMul5JilMhfGgBrNAq+WDOkXTi/DQt89zX8VyY0eoFe7xU36cX 7nqvyDQVct/DvwLEfShTcP7EgpAZv5knLlV13zOJJhKy102ROWHVuEH9NTNVwhGXYkf/gW JbBl1Sx/HZBMBNHJxa/ZvzdstsgTuALZ9b2KLm/9Pz4pD7lBq84q/vZqvnsIFg== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.95 X-Spam-Score: -0.95 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6179D1AD16 X-TUID: LiiBpE3tUv8w On 23/03/2023 17:49, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Nick Dokos writes: > >> It is off until org-ctags is loaded. *When* it is loaded, it runs >> `(org-ctags-enable)' and the behavior changes. > > Sure. This is not by itself a big deal. A number of Elisp libraries, > including built-in Emacs libraries are loaded with side effects. It is still violation of conventions: (info "(elisp) Coding Conventions") https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Coding-Conventions.html > D.1 Emacs Lisp Coding Conventions > > Simply loading a package should not change Emacs’s editing behavior. > Include a command or commands to enable and disable the feature, or to > invoke it. > > This convention is mandatory for any file that includes custom > definitions. If fixing such a file to follow this convention requires an > incompatible change, go ahead and make the incompatible change; don’t > postpone it. Notice *incompatible*. On 23/03/2023 17:49, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Nick Dokos writes: >> As you see, `help--load-prefixes' loads `org-ctags'. ... > This sounds like Emacs bug. I would say that it sounds like a fix for https://debbugs.gnu.org/60085 `help-enable-autoload' is not fully obeyed See also: Max Nikulin to emacs-orgmode… Re: Does variable 'org-goto-interface' exist? Wed, 14 Dec 2022 21:20:07 +0700. https://lists.orgmode.org/6dd5a4fe-b99b-73a9-26dd-bb522ff1b892@gmail.com > Note that we discussed loading side effects in > https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/tn4ql0$bu2$1@ciao.gmane.io/ I have not responded to that thread. My opinion is that besides functions that just loads files and packages there should be counterparts that loads and activates libraries. A proof of concept may be implemented for Org and in the case of success it may be proposed for inclusion into Emacs core.