From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id eFDXCn8Nw19oXgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 02:54:55 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id ALWjBn8Nw19nSQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 02:54:55 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8FF09404C4 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 02:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48946 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjCrT-0003v7-4g for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 21:54:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjCr4-0003ty-6T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 21:54:26 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:59767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjCr1-00081s-BJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 21:54:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1606618460; bh=rueLN5Oo7QZIDZORGYFxuVjGQfJB4zq8Lx1IU8z+ZHU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=Z8DYJKdelFDvcuhh82eA9NatYzliK8gdzhIl3ki6y8MV+ZxUcUrrDZygQFbHP1fTh RoED5ZlJEwe1YjstSh1ilqTagGERJjrNomSYv2RH1R0bwreXgfFFGemMsgvClhthgE +nMfZRERs7fyVQ5EIErqVrdrXWn7FRo/0wCPVpVI= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs11.server.lan [172.19.170.179]) (via HTTP); Sun, 29 Nov 2020 03:54:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: daniela-spit@gmx.it To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 03:54:20 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87sg8tymeb.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87mtz1fkfx.fsf@gmail.com> <87ft4tfgpv.fsf@gmail.com> <874kl9fe7m.fsf@gmail.com> <87wny5dy6j.fsf@gmail.com> <87r1od181i.fsf@gmail.com> <87h7p9135u.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg8tymeb.fsf@gmail.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zDOLbY6pWXCwAlyVQC/p2VDH/fvo4QJzw5uJCCa1qgGV6uMER4t6ChZ1HiHn4aO5PvseA SbTi5hq7/8OqDdvLFnjDdqRvDINSA0D+wrvX1I0SpGIXbZBAdUiuOOshnjVVXvT4bTLKbABFHlZ6 WKiaosSgd8MFDyZuWu5bbaiMjTm+c0u4pE1ySSxoqz5gyjdf6fyebU6fPGz11e01QlSec2/diNkJ IYGmhszBVsKQthDzAxdGxvLGj7whTYrhA/xInO5p7/JJbnhdV/e7/QNJd1Ioqa3uv3sQ4OGSdMDZ R8= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:c0y3EDALRQI=:XXdgp22RMqCNf2TutpJceb tFOTD5FVOxxMUs6OVa6UNUlKA0P2quSh5ITK+nPTd3WnSBZLdR0NRMD3ighosMlY1wpoT+PAy x9MPDveWUSkw6iE5LzjvuDoDHwLZu34y6U2whSlx21S/udcpZ1gOTp8jX9tMR0md5uJOQDFBC vln8nKKkhRXYbHF0QnbSDkb7OniLoXgDMeDPkiuUQymnhgf25pBMnHpMuVP5gY9EDZqyMP0+n 4+frbQyxnGn/TZg4gkm77LgH1MDnUfLbVXiNl1ZvP77JzGsjwqBqTzV5WfdXTky3n/MawOTaR cUF77RyEzh+TKpgEcPWpiptIixympb1Ox87dgRIi5srRp/Tqg4mQvo4ioCaGmzVAZ4DYXCmZY t/7djSf/62fY3vyBsdmqO59VgBUSfdmcGU6dh4Eg5ArJyiw7EpdduR/guJstTt3vRx7YwulMj MYKKWcd6Ue3wKgjGeZOWEr0gWS6AgwABrOeJRZD4amJgppUytG81qN4OHXvL3OnnvZHivVvjL PEg+1B+8o6Ug8RJeTwlTgFGX+NTu1Pa3JEYFTcUyBqM9wui/zPpPF/VApfS+QlPN/fIqxNqdY mJKzXgz7mKRZA= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=daniela-spit@gmx.it; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.97 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=Z8DYJKde; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: f2EOMX3gKrXt #44935 > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 2:36 AM > From: "Tim Cross" > To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files > > > daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: > > >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 12:18 AM > >> From: "Jeremie Juste" > >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > >> Cc: "Org-Mode mailing list" > >> Subject: Re: Adding Org Files to org-agenda-files > >> > >> || On Saturday, 28 Nov 2020 at 22:45, daniela-spit@gmx.it wrote: > >> > > >> > Many thanks for helping me. I would not have got to this stage wit= hout > >> > your helpful commands and checks. > >> You are welcome ;-) > >> > > >> > Getting used to a problem to the extent of depending on it is not a= good system. > >> > Emacs should follow what the user demands by default, with perhaps = the option > >> > for the user to change that behaviour. But it is the user that sho= uld demand > >> > it. In situations when Emacs gets to do something so drastic, it s= hould inform > >> > the user what is happening and put that information in a log file. > >> What you see as a problem some see as a solution. For instance, it de= pends how many > >> org-files you want to add to the agenda. Some users including me have= 2 > >> or three files in org-agenda-files so I never interact with this > >> variable directly. > > > > I have many and they change quite frequently, depending on project. > > So often torture emacs hard. Have sent a bug-report about it. Keen > > for a change to go through. > > > > What was the bug tracking number? I'd be interested in seeing what you > are wanting or what exactly you feel is a bug. > > From following the thread and adding a lot of assumptions/guess work, I > think there are quite a few options to satisfy your requirements. Some > of them are fairly easy, some may need some basic elisp and some may > require a shift in user perspective. The choice depends a lot on what > the user is comfortable with. > > This list is often really good at providing assistance. However, often > it is better to also outline what your actual high-level goal is rather > than as how to do a specific step in what you believe is the answer to > achieving your goal. Org mode is a powerful and feature rich system > which can take a bit of time to really understand. Sometimes, what you > believe is the solution to your problem can turn out to be something > which already exists, but in a slightly different form, so is not > recognised, or maybe is a bad idea or perhaps can be achieved easily by > slightly modifying the requirements in a way that does not impact on the > final goal. > > As an example, you asked how to send a capture buffer to two files. It > would be good to understand why you want to do this because on the face > of it, there are some really good reasons NOT to do this. For example, > this will create two copies of the same data. If, for whatever reason, > you later need to update this information, you will have two places you > need to remember to update. If you only update one, at some point in the > future, you will be in a situation where you have two bits of > information about the same thing which are different and won't know > which is correct. Understanding why you want to do this will give list > members the opportunity to point out alternative solutions which may > meet your requirements, but avoid the possible problems with your > current approach. > > It is a similar story with respect to the management of org agenda > files. There are many different approaches to this and understanding > your requirements rather than just helping you to fix the problem can > help. > > From reading the thread and seeing the problems you had with executing > commands etc, I'm assuming you are relatively new to both Emacs and > org-mode. That is great and welcome! One of the big challenges for those > new to org mode is learning how to best use it for your needs. > Unfortunately, because it is such a flexible system and because everyone > has different needs and priorities, it is impossible for org to set > defaults which will satisfy everyone. It tries hard to find a middle > ground, but cannot be expected to always get it right. There is also a > need for the user to be willing to adjust their perspective to work with > org and not against it. This is largely true of Emacs generally. Those > who are most successful with adopting Emacs and org mode tend to also be > those who are willing to see new possibilities and perspectives. Thought it was a simple thing but it wasn't. Emacs was overwriting my var= iable. I am new to Org Capture, Org Agenda, Calendar, and Diary. Have used Emacs for work but never configured it myself. > Jeremy has mentioned he only has a few agenda files. I'm the polar > opposite - I have lots of agenda files and lots of org files which are > not members of the agenda file list. It took me a while to find the best > balance for my requirements and while how I manage things may not fit > with your requirements, I'm hoping outlining them and how I got to my > solution may give you some ideas. > > Initially, I put pretty much everything into the agenda file list. This > worked fairly well until the size of these files began to get very > large. The biggest problem I had was my agendas were just getting too > large and complicated/distracting. I have constructed four different Capture Templates and four Org Agendas and then I can fire up the ones I want as I am working. > I then moved to a workflow where the agenda files really only contained > tasks and notes, references, pretty much everything else was put into > other org files not part of the agenda file list. I didn't like that > workflow. It complicated refiling and I lost the ability to keep all > related things together in a meaningful way. Have made capture and agenda by project, and then some functions that group some of them together. Not so sure how good it is going to until I have used for proper work. > I then came up with a workflow which worked a lot better where I had a > function (very simple one) which would change the list of agenda files > based originally on what project I was working on and then later a more > general type of work I was doing (at the time, I had 4 different 'roles' > - main job, consulting work, volunteer work and home). This worked well > for reducing the number/size of data which needed to be scanned when I > called up the agenda. However, I still found there was too much or too > many items in the agenda. > > At this point, I started using tags to provide a way to generate smaller > agendas based on some specific criteria, such as the project I was > working on. This really began to help and I soon came up with some > standard agenda searches and views which really worked for me. My basic > workflow was functioning well. > From this point, it was about refinement. For example, realised there > are some tasks, such as scheduled tasks, which you always want to show > up in the normal agenda, regardless of which work 'mode' (work, > consulting, volunteer, home) I was in. > > I now have a setup I'm very happy with. The final solution actually > comprises components from all my workflow iterations, but typically in a > much simpler and stripped down version. I still have the ability to > modify the agenda file list via a function 'on the fly', but only use it > sparingly (where I have a work situation where it needs to be kept > completely separate from everything else). Good to hear some others have tried a more complicated setup than customary. > What I did discover during this process was that 90% or more of what I > needed already existed, I just didn't recognise it or understand it > enough to recognise it. Nearly all my customisation is now built using > org facilities, which is great because it makes things very stable. I > rarely get issues with org or emacs version upgrades. > > What I learned from this process can best be summarised as - > > 1. When asking for help/guidance, outline the high level goal, not just > the details of a problem you are having in implementing your solution. > > 2. Initially, avoid customisation when possible. Work with the system in > default configuration for a while, even if some of it seems frustrating. > There are often subtle reasons things are configured in certain ways by > default which only become evident after using them for a while. Lots of > people have used and contributed to org over the years and how it works > has been refined to benefit from that experience. Org is quite ok. But setting emacs takes much more time. > 3. If you think you need to change/adjust the list of files in the > agenda frequently, your probably wrong or are doing things in a > sub-optimal way. Consider how you can achieve your goal without changing > the agenda file list. > > 4. The first areas you will likely want to customise are capture > templates and agenda views. If your not familiar with elisp, you are > best off using the customise system to do this. That was my task, get the capture and agenda working. > HTH > > Tim > -- > Tim Cross > >