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[2001:569:7c1c:f700:d19e:9ab:e650:9e6f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r7sm7686937pjd.8.2020.11.26.15.09.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:09:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Rogers To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: Is Org really so simple? References: <87y2ive1i4.fsf@localhost> <878sauhhv1.fsf@web.de> <875z5ygwwr.fsf@web.de> <87r1olfvh4.fsf@web.de> <878sascg5j.fsf@localhost> Mail-Followup-To: Jean Louis , Ihor Radchenko , "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , Texas Cyberthal , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:09:44 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Jean Louis's message of "Mon, 23 Nov 2020 21:08:55 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a; envelope-from=davidandrewrogers@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , Texas Cyberthal , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , Ihor Radchenko Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.89 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=brnbH+Th; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: KONLzD5BjU5w Jean Louis writes: > * Ihor Radchenko [2020-11-23 17:18]: > :PROPERTIES: > :CREATED: [2020-11-23 Mon 18:42] > :ID: edebb3e7-e755-4ecc-a5e8-a3353a3f5fd0 > :END: >> Dear Jean Louis, >>=20 >> Your description of the database reminds me how org-roam=20 >> handles the >> files - it also uses an external database for linking and=20 >> allows quick >> incremental search that does not really depend on where the >> files/headings are stored. > > Sounds good, I can see there is graph database used. > >> However, what you are talking about is against org-mode=20 >> philosophy, >> as I know it. > > Only philosophy I know is that it is plain text. Is there any=20 > official > philosophy? I have no idea, at least manual does not give me > references. I cannot find "philosophy", send me references. > > It says "to keep simple things simple". But Org is far far from=20 > being > simple any more. It offers good principles, paradigms and people=20 > built > many enhancements upon those. Speedily it becomes way much more=20 > than > simple. Nothing was mentioned about keeping Org-mode simple. You=E2=80=99ve made a= =20 bad misreading there. It said keeping *simple things* simple - in=20 other words, avoid taking a simple thing and making it=20 complicated. Things that really are complicated (=E2=80=9Cin real life=E2= =80=9D)=20 may *sometimes* be simplified, and that might be good - but =E2=80=9CMake=20 everything be simple=E2=80=9D is not a valid goal for any useful piece of=20 software. Often, a=C2=A0complicated thing must stay complicated. In my opinion, this kind of =E2=80=9Csimple vs complex=E2=80=9D discussion = is like=20 discussing the quality of competitive sports teams. It=E2=80=99s=C2=A0simpl= e at=20 one level - which team has the best players? But in reality,=20 there=E2=80=99s=C2=A0a lot more to it: Is there enough money? Do these play= ers=20 work well with this coach? etc. In other words, support and=20 infrastructure. If you focus only on the simple part, it becomes=20 like taking that good group of players and putting them on the=20 moon by themselves. In reality, they can only be a good team when=20 all of the complicated messy infrastructure is functioning, and=20 without the infrastructure, they don=E2=80=99t function correctly. Org-mode is a clever way of =E2=80=9Cleveraging=E2=80=9D Emacs. Org-mode is= n=E2=80=99t a=20 self-contained application - instead, it=E2=80=99s=C2=A0more like a (large)= =20 Emacs plug-in. Or maybe this: Copying the design of a hydroelectric dam and generator, and=20 building an exact duplicate in the middle of a desert, isn=E2=80=99t=20 effective. The concept is simple (the turbine spins, it generates=20 electricity) - but for it to work, you have to have the right=20 thing to build it on top of. Rivers are harder to build than=20 hydroelectric generators are. :) You don=E2=80=99t carry around a=20 hydroelectric dam looking for a place to put it - you only start=20 building after you=E2=80=99ve found a good river, and you build=20 differently depending on the circumstances. --=20 David