tricky odt export needs

tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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Hi all,

I have a document that was formerly a LaTeX file. In it there were labels
and references using \label and \pageref. I am needing to export to doc
using ox-odt. I have been able to do some fairly advanced things like using
styles I've modified and created. But I'm having trouble with all but one
of the techniques shown in "Creating one-off styles" in the manual. This
includes the simplest solution, which has you prepend odt tags with @. So
the example on that page:

@<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">This is a
highlighted text@</text:span>.  But this is a
regular text.

doesn't work. That is, the resulting .odt file shows the text above with
the @ symbols. Am I missing something?

It would be nice to know how I can get embedded odt tags to work as
described in the manual. But what's more important, and may make the odt
tag question moot, is to be able to mark places in the document as labels
and page references. Even if I could get just the first part of that going
(marking certain places as labels or cross reference sources) then I'd be
further along.

Please note that the idea here is not to create labels for images or
tables. What I am needing are labels that later would be used to create a
cross reference to a page or footnote number.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Dan Griswold
Rochester, NY

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Dan Griswold <dgriswol@rochester.rr.com> writes:

> @<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">This is a
> highlighted text@</text:span>.  But this is a
> regular text.
>
> doesn't work. That is, the resulting .odt file shows the text above with
> the @ symbols. Am I missing something?

Syntax for Org > 8.0 is:

  @@odt:<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">@@


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

> @<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">This is a
> highlighted text@</text:span>.  But this is a
> regular text.
>
> doesn't work. That is, the resulting .odt file shows the text above with
> the @ symbols. Am I missing something?

No, the manual is. My bad, sort of; I meant to fix it a week ago but
never got around to it.

With the new exporter, the syntax is:

@@odt:<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">@@This is a highlighted
text@@odt:</text:span>@@.  But this is a regular text.

The raw ODT is now wrapped in double @@'s, not preceded by a single @,
and you need to specify the backend after the leading @@'s.

> It would be nice to know how I can get embedded odt tags to work as
> described in the manual. But what's more important, and may make the odt
> tag question moot, is to be able to mark places in the document as labels
> and page references. Even if I could get just the first part of that going
> (marking certain places as labels or cross reference sources) then I'd be
> further along.

You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
references. You can change that for each reference individually by
right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get page
references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.

Yours,
Christian

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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Thank you, Nicolas! This is just what I need.

It seems that my installation of org mode (from orgmode.org/elpa) does not
have its info file updated to reflect that change of syntax.

Dan



On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Dan Griswold <dgriswol@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> > @<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">This is a
> > highlighted text@</text:span>.  But this is a
> > regular text.
> >
> > doesn't work. That is, the resulting .odt file shows the text above with
> > the @ symbols. Am I missing something?
>
> Syntax for Org > 8.0 is:
>
>   @@odt:<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">@@
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>
>

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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Thank you Christian,

This is very helpful.

I'll do some comparing of the standard way of doing links with the
workaround I've stumbled into.

Cheers,

Dan



On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> > @<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">This is a
> > highlighted text@</text:span>.  But this is a
> > regular text.
> >
> > doesn't work. That is, the resulting .odt file shows the text above with
> > the @ symbols. Am I missing something?
>
> No, the manual is. My bad, sort of; I meant to fix it a week ago but
> never got around to it.
>
> With the new exporter, the syntax is:
>
> @@odt:<text:span text:style-name="Highlight">@@This is a highlighted
> text@@odt:</text:span>@@.  But this is a regular text.
>
> The raw ODT is now wrapped in double @@'s, not preceded by a single @,
> and you need to specify the backend after the leading @@'s.
>
> > It would be nice to know how I can get embedded odt tags to work as
> > described in the manual. But what's more important, and may make the odt
> > tag question moot, is to be able to mark places in the document as labels
> > and page references. Even if I could get just the first part of that
> going
> > (marking certain places as labels or cross reference sources) then I'd be
> > further along.
>
> You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
> manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
> box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
> references. You can change that for each reference individually by
> right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get page
> references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.
>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
>

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Dan Griswold <dgriswol@rochester.rr.com> writes:

> It seems that my installation of org mode (from orgmode.org/elpa) does not
> have its info file updated to reflect that change of syntax.

I updated the manual. Thank you.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

I said:

> You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
> manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
> box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
> references. You can change that for each reference individually by
> right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get page
> references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.

Well, here's one way to get those page references, using filters:

(defun my-odt-filter-pagerefs (text backend info)
       "Make page references, not textual references in ODT export."
       (when (org-export-derived-backend-p backend 'odt)
             (replace-regexp-in-string "text:reference-format=\"text\"" "text:reference-format=\"page\"" text)))

(add-to-list 'org-export-filter-link-functions
                  'my-odt-filter-pagerefs)

(Whee! I just wrote my first export filter.)

Org doesn't know what the page number will be, so when you open the
document in e.g. LibreOffice, you still have to update fields (Tools >
Update) before you see page numbers.

Yours,
Christian

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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Thank you!


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com>wrote:

> Dan Griswold <dgriswol@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>
> > It seems that my installation of org mode (from orgmode.org/elpa) does
> not
> > have its info file updated to reflect that change of syntax.
>
> I updated the manual. Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>
>

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>wrote:

>
> Well, here's one way to get those page references, using filters:
>
> (defun my-odt-filter-pagerefs (text backend info)
>        "Make page references, not textual references in ODT export."
>        (when (org-export-derived-backend-p backend 'odt)
>              (replace-regexp-in-string "text:reference-format=\"text\""
> "text:reference-format=\"page\"" text)))
>
> (add-to-list 'org-export-filter-link-functions
>                   'my-odt-filter-pagerefs)
>
> (Whee! I just wrote my first export filter.)
>

That sounds pretty neat, Christian. But I get an export failed error, and
it doesn't complete creating the odt file. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Dan

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Suvayu Ali]

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:34:55AM -0500, Dan Griswold wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Well, here's one way to get those page references, using filters:
> >
> > (defun my-odt-filter-pagerefs (text backend info)
> >        "Make page references, not textual references in ODT export."
> >        (when (org-export-derived-backend-p backend 'odt)
> >              (replace-regexp-in-string "text:reference-format=\"text\""
> > "text:reference-format=\"page\"" text)))
> >
> > (add-to-list 'org-export-filter-link-functions
> >                   'my-odt-filter-pagerefs)
> >
> > (Whee! I just wrote my first export filter.)
> >
> 
> That sounds pretty neat, Christian. But I get an export failed error, and
> it doesn't complete creating the odt file. Any suggestions?

First I would check the Output buffer.  That should have more
information on why the export failed.

Hope this helps,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com>wrote:

> First I would check the Output buffer.  That should have more
> information on why the export failed.
>

Thanks Suvayu. There was no Output buffer, only a few error messages in the
*Messages* buffer (and these are of dubious relevance.)

But it seems that the problem occurs only when I have
org-odt-preferred-output-format set to "odt" rather than "doc" or nil.

Dan

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Dan Griswold]

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Well, as you can see with my exchange with Suvayu I got past the error. Yet
I still have a strange problem. Your solution works on a small test file,
but not on my large (~ 13k words) document. The conversion of "text" to
"page" just doesn't happen.

I do have a special style file, so I thought that might be the issue. But
even when I remove the line #+ODT_STYLES_FILE: "book.ott"
 from the head of the file, there still seems to be no conversion.

Puzzled,

Dan



On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>wrote:

>
> I said:
>
> > You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
> > manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
> > box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
> > references. You can change that for each reference individually by
> > right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get page
> > references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.
>
> Well, here's one way to get those page references, using filters:
>
> (defun my-odt-filter-pagerefs (text backend info)
>        "Make page references, not textual references in ODT export."
>        (when (org-export-derived-backend-p backend 'odt)
>              (replace-regexp-in-string "text:reference-format=\"text\""
> "text:reference-format=\"page\"" text)))
>
> (add-to-list 'org-export-filter-link-functions
>                   'my-odt-filter-pagerefs)
>
> (Whee! I just wrote my first export filter.)
>
> Org doesn't know what the page number will be, so when you open the
> document in e.g. LibreOffice, you still have to update fields (Tools >
> Update) before you see page numbers.
>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
>
>
>

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Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

Hi, Dan,

Is this the message you get?

 No such file: /[path]/OpenDocument export failed: FIXME?

Does the error always occur when you have my filter set, and never when
you don't?

Does it matter whether you're restricting export to subtrees?

After some more testing, I'm seeing the above error message myself in a
limited set of circumstances (only during subtree export, and only when
the target/bookmark/label is at a higher heading level than the
reference). But whether I use the filter or not does not seem to matter.

I enclose a working version of the filter again, on the off chance that
there was a typo in my previous message.

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  (defun my-odt-filter-pagerefs (text backend info)
    "Make page-number references rather than textual references in
  ODT export."
    (when (org-export-derived-backend-p backend 'odt)
      (replace-regexp-in-string "text:reference-format=\"text\"" "text:reference-format=\"page\"" text)))
  
  (add-to-list 'org-export-filter-link-functions
               'my-odt-filter-pagerefs)
#+end_src

Yours,
Christian

Dan Griswold writes:

> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> First I would check the Output buffer.  That should have more
>> information on why the export failed.
>>
>
> Thanks Suvayu. There was no Output buffer, only a few error messages in the
> *Messages* buffer (and these are of dubious relevance.)
>
> But it seems that the problem occurs only when I have
> org-odt-preferred-output-format set to "odt" rather than "doc" or nil.
>
> Dan

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

Dan Griswold writes:

> Well, as you can see with my exchange with Suvayu I got past the error. Yet
> I still have a strange problem. Your solution works on a small test file,
> but not on my large (~ 13k words) document. The conversion of "text" to
> "page" just doesn't happen.

Odd. The document I tested on yesterday was not much smaller.

> I do have a special style file, so I thought that might be the issue. But
> even when I remove the line #+ODT_STYLES_FILE: "book.ott"
>  from the head of the file, there still seems to be no conversion.

No, I can't think of any reason why a style file would interfere.

Puzzled, too.

Christian

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Jambunathan K]

Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes:

> You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
> manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
> box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
> references. You can change that for each reference individually by
> right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get
> page references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.

I am interested in rolling out support for xref by pagenumbers.  I would
like to know what the standard or recommended practice is like.

So, when one says "I want pagenumbers for xref", what xref-es they have
in mind.  Do they mean ONE-or-SOME-or-ALL of a xref to outline headings,
figure, table, source listings, formula etc.

Personally I wouldn't recommend use of filters to end users.  Filters
are useful for programmers not for the layman.

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

Jambunathan K writes:

> The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
> that has been posted to gmane.emacs.orgmode as well.
>
>
> Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes:
>
>> You can do cross-references with ordinary links. Have a look at the
>> manual section 4.2, "Internal links". However, what you get out of the
>> box is textual references to e.g. section headings, not page
>> references. You can change that for each reference individually by
>> right-clicking on them in LibreOffice. There should be a way to get
>> page references by default, but off the cuff, I'm not sure how.
>
> I am interested in rolling out support for xref by pagenumbers.  I would
> like to know what the standard or recommended practice is like.
>
> So, when one says "I want pagenumbers for xref", what xref-es they have
> in mind.  Do they mean ONE-or-SOME-or-ALL of a xref to outline headings,
> figure, table, source listings, formula etc.

I don't know what recommended practice is would be.

My own take on this is that all objects you mention are probably
best left as xrefs to the section, figure etc. concerned, exported as
section title, section number, figure number etc. as appropriate. 

On a different thread, however, I have suggested that xrefs to
*dedicated link targets* should export as page numbers in ODT. (Or this
should be made an option.)

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/79096

Nicolas Goaziou raised a couple of objections on that thread, as did
you. I forgot to copy my reply to the list, and I think I partly
misunderstood what Nicolas was saying, anyway.

Nicolas raised a use case I'd forgotten about: Dedicated link targets in
list items are currently exported as the item number. Nicolas suggested
that item numbers are more useful than page numbers here, and he's
probably right. But keeping this behavior would make my proposal more
complex to implement and maintain.

Nicolas also raised concerns over backend compatibility. However, I
don't think this is a strong argument against introducing page number
references. A page reference solution makes sense for paged media (ODT,
LaTeX backends) but not for screen (HTML).

Finally, it should also be considered to make page numbers the default
for *non-numbered* headings:

When headings are not numbered in export (#+options: num:nil), current
ODT export outputs a cross-reference with a descriptive text equal to
the heading text of the item the dedicated target is in. However, this
seems to be fragile; as soon as you Update Fields in LibreOffice, the
cross-reference collapses to an empty space. The other backends also
seem to struggle with the case of xrefs to headings without heading
numbering.

Yours,
Christian

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Jambunathan K]

I will respond to other items as I visit them.  Meanwhile, I would like
to add the following note for discussion.

Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes:

> When headings are not numbered in export (#+options: num:nil), current
> ODT export outputs a cross-reference with a descriptive text equal to
> the heading text of the item the dedicated target is in.

When we are typesetting a xref in a backend - I can authoritatively
speak for the ODT backend - we need not be resticted to "ONE-OF" but can
have "ANY-COMBINATION-OF" descriptors.  What I mean is this:

In the pdf version of Emacs info manuals one typically sees all three of
a Section number AND a Description AND a Page number, something like:

    See Section 3.1 [Tropical Storms], page 24.

In Org context, I am wondering whether there is such a need.

----------------------------------------------------------------    

http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Reference-Syntax.html#Reference-Syntax

(There are some variations on the xref markup to restrict whether te
"See" is present or not, capitalized or not)

http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/html_node/Cross-Reference-Commands.html#Cross-Reference-Commands

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Christian Moe]

Jambunathan K writes:

> When we are typesetting a xref in a backend - I can authoritatively
> speak for the ODT backend - we need not be resticted to "ONE-OF" but can
> have "ANY-COMBINATION-OF" descriptors.  What I mean is this:
>
> In the pdf version of Emacs info manuals one typically sees all three of
> a Section number AND a Description AND a Page number, something like:
>
>     See Section 3.1 [Tropical Storms], page 24.
>
> In Org context, I am wondering whether there is such a need.

Two thoughts:

1. Assuming my suggestion for dedicated links to be typeset as page number
references, one  partly achieve this by multiple links.

e.g.

------------------------------------------------

See Section [[*Tropical Storms]], page [[tropstorms]].

* Tropical Storms

Bla bla bla...

<<tropstorms>> Bla bla bla..

--------------------------------------------------

2. Maybe, instead of trying to make simple cross-reference links do
everything for everyone, it would be better to think in terms of
creating several link types?

e.g. something like

See Section [[*Tropical Storms]], [[textref:*Tropical Storms]],
[[pageref:tropstorms]].

Yours,
Christian Moe

Re: tricky odt export needs

[Jambunathan K]

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Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:

> In the pdf version of Emacs info manuals one typically sees all three of
> a Section number AND a Description AND a Page number, something like:
>
>     See Section 3.1 [Tropical Storms], page 24.
>
> In Org context, I am wondering whether there is such a need.

I have added support for generating page nos.  See attachments for
sample test file.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

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[-- Attachment #2: pagenos.org --]
[-- Type: text/x-org, Size: 611 bytes --]

#+OPTIONS: ':nil *:t -:nil ::t <:t H:3 \n:nil ^:t arch:headline
#+OPTIONS: author:t c:nil creator:comment d:(not "LOGBOOK") date:t
#+OPTIONS: e:t email:nil f:t inline:t num:3 p:nil pri:nil prop:nil
#+OPTIONS: stat:t tags:t tasks:t tex:t timestamp:t toc:t todo:t |:t
#+TITLE: headline
#+DATE: <2014-02-12 Wed>
#+AUTHOR: Jambunathan K
#+EMAIL: kjambunathan@gmail.com
#+DESCRIPTION:
#+KEYWORDS:
#+LANGUAGE: en
#+SELECT_TAGS: export
#+EXCLUDE_TAGS: noexport
#+CREATOR: Emacs 24.3.50.20 (Org mode 8.2.5h)

#+TOC: headlines


* Headline 1

Some text. See [[Headline 2]].

#+PAGEBREAK:
* Headline 2

Some more text.  

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--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

----------------------------------------------------------------

Page nos are disabled by default.  To enable pagenos, you need to

    M-x customize-variable org-odt-caption-and-xref-settings

and choose a setting as below.

    [X] Key: :TARGET:
        Plist:
        [X] Key: :xref-format
            Choice: Value Menu TexInfo style
            INS


The "TexInfo style" is provided more for trial run.  A variety of
different "format strings" can be chosen.

----------------------------------------------------------------

You can pull my changes from the following ELPA archive:

    http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-kjn.git/blob_plain/master:/

See instructions at http://cauvery.nfshost.com/wiki.pl/ODT_Exporter

----------------------------------------------------------------


[-- Attachment #4: pagenos-after-upate.odt --]
[-- Type: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text, Size: 16120 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #5: pagenos.odt --]
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[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #6: pagenos.org --]
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#+OPTIONS: ':nil *:t -:nil ::t <:t H:3 \n:nil ^:t arch:headline
#+OPTIONS: author:t c:nil creator:comment d:(not "LOGBOOK") date:t
#+OPTIONS: e:t email:nil f:t inline:t num:3 p:nil pri:nil prop:nil
#+OPTIONS: stat:t tags:t tasks:t tex:t timestamp:t toc:t todo:t |:t
#+TITLE: headline
#+DATE: <2014-02-12 Wed>
#+AUTHOR: Jambunathan K
#+EMAIL: kjambunathan@gmail.com
#+DESCRIPTION:
#+KEYWORDS:
#+LANGUAGE: en
#+SELECT_TAGS: export
#+EXCLUDE_TAGS: noexport
#+CREATOR: Emacs 24.3.50.20 (Org mode 8.2.5h)

#+TOC: headlines


* Headline 1

Some text. See [[Headline 2]].

#+PAGEBREAK:
* Headline 2

Some more text.