emails written in Org Mode

emails written in Org Mode

[Ken Mankoff]

Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
 
> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in 
> full
> org-mode).

I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
clients. Will you provide some information about this?

Thanks,

  -k.

[1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

Le mar.  08 juil. 2014  à 08:28:35  , Ken Mankoff  <mankoff@gmail.com> a
envoyé ce message:
> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>
>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>> full
>> org-mode).
>
> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
> clients. Will you provide some information about this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  -k.
>
> [1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html

Hello Ken,

In my  own little experience of  Gnus, it can be  perfectly synchronized
with gmail client (i.e. gmail in your browser).
But probably the most interesting thing is the use of links with org-mode
(that I  do not use, but  I am interested to  learn it). It is  not gnus
specific  but maybe  gnus offers  more advantages,  I do  not know.  I'm
learning gnus step by step. 

Manual: 

http://orgmode.org/manual/External-links.html

http://orgmode.org/manual/Handling-links.html

org-mode list: 

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2007-05/msg00058.html

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2007-07/msg00258.html

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/55066

http://blog.schiessle.org/tag/org-mode/

But every help from gnus + org-mode  expert is welcome for a newbie like
me. 

Best wishes,

Jo. 

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

Le    ven.    11   juil.    2014    à    02:39:42   ,    Grant    Rettke
<gcr@wisdomandwonder.com> a envoyé ce message:
> Hi Joseph,
>
> What directions did you follow for working with gmail?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> gcr

Hi Grant,

Gnus   +   gmail  is   pretty   well   documented.   Have  a   look   on
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GnusGmail   .  My   setup  is   not  very
different, but I can send to you my .gnus.el if you want it. 

I  must say  that I  am  already convinced  that using  gnus alone  with
org-mode (i.e. with links) is  certainly more efficient, but it requires
more time to learn it. It is an holiday project. :)

Best wishes,

Jo. 

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Ken, 

> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>
>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>> full
>> org-mode).
>
> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
> clients. Will you provide some information about this?

Yes, I use Gnus and thus write my mails in message-mode. 

My setup is the standard outshine.el + outorg.el setup, since it works
out-of-the-box with message-mode, given you follow the installation
description. 

In my init file I have (note that '(try-require 'foo) is basically
'(require 'foo nit t), and that outorg is required by navi-mode
anyway.):

,----
| (message "\n------ entering outline ------")
| 
| (when (try-require 'outline)
| (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
| (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode))
| 
| ;; outorg
| ;; (try-require 'outorg)
| 
| ;; outshine
| (try-require 'outshine)
| (add-hook 'outline-minor-mode-hook 'outshine-hook-function)
| 
| (setq outshine-use-speed-commands t)
| 
| ;; navi-mode
| (try-require 'navi-mode)
| 
| ;; poporg
| (try-require 'poporg)
`----

You can get outshine/outorg/navi via MELPA or from github (repo tj64).

My workflow is more or less like this:

 - start writing email in message-mode (just the Gnus default)

 - while writing, come to the conclusion that I need a table, or want to
   insert and evalute src_blocks, or want to attach the email exported
   to ASCII etc etc - and switch to Org-mode with M-# # (M-x
   outorg-edit-as-org)

############################################################

I did this right now, here is how this email looks in the
*outorg-edit-buffer*: 

,----
| * --text follows this line--
| Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
| 
| Hi Ken, 
| 
| > Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
| >
| >> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
| >> full
| >> org-mode).
| >
| > I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
| [...]
| Yes, I use Gnus and thus write my mails in message-mode. My setup is the
| standard outshine.el + outorg.el setup, since it works out-of-the-box
| with message-mode. 
| 
| My workflow is more or less like this:
| 
|  - start writing email in message-mode (just the Gnus default)
|  [...]
`----

You can see that in outorg.el I just use a trick to make it work with
message-mode - I prepare the message-mode buffer in such a way that
outorg can work with it (i.e. I make it an outshine buffer by
 
 1. turning this line into an Org headline:

   ,----
   | * --text follows this line--
   `----

 2. commenting out all text

Then outorg can convert the buffer to Org like it can convert any other
outshine buffer (outshine is major-mode agnostic, it works, at least in
theory, with all major-modes). 

One nice thing about this is that you can do code-block evaluation
directly in the *outorg-edit-buffer*, no buffer switching and copy&paste
necessary anymore.

############################################################

 - when I'm finished editing in Org I just do M-# (M-x
   outorg-copy-edits-and-exit) to get back to message-mode. For
   message-mode, the buffer gets some special treatment when converting
   back from Org-mode (basically undo the trick I used in the
   beginning). 

So in summary, in outorg I

 1. check if original buffer is in message-mode
 2. if so, prepare buffer for editing in Org (do trick)
 3. convert buffer to Org
 4. edit in Org
 5. prepare buffer for converting back to message-mode (undo trick)
 5. reconvert buffer to message-mode

I would guess that this could easily be ported to mu4e. In step 1 I
could check for mu4e too, and write two mu4e-functions for buffer
preparation (converting to and from Org-mode) - thats all. 

I only would need to know how a message-buffer looks like in mu4e. In
message-mode it looks basically like this 

,----
| References: <m2pphfr9an.fsf@gmail.com>
| X-Draft-From: ("nntp+news.gmane.org:gmane.emacs.orgmode" 88376)
| Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode
| Subject: Re: emails written in Org Mode
| From: Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com>
| Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2014-07
| --text follows this line--
| 
| -- 
| cheers,
| Thorsten
`----

and I do a 

,----
|  (re-search-forward mail-header-separator nil 'NOERROR)
`----

to search for this line

,----
| --text follows this line--
`----

and figure out where the message body starts. If you could provide me
with a reliable template for a mu4e message and some kind of always
present mail-header-separator, I could try to make outorg work with mu4e
too. 

PS

> [1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html

Reads interesting, I had not heard of it. I probably use only 1pc of
Gnus functionality, and it was kind of a pain to set it up, but now that
it works its very comfortable so I'm probably not going to switch.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Alan Schmitt]

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Hello,

On 2014-07-09 09:49, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, I use Gnus and thus write my mails in message-mode. 
>
> My setup is the standard outshine.el + outorg.el setup, since it works
> out-of-the-box with message-mode, given you follow the installation
> description. 

I've given this a try, and it's not obvious how to make it work. This is
what I did:

- installed outorg through MELPA
- tried on an email, as no outorg function was loaded, I evaluated
 '(require 'outorg')'
- upon calling the 'outorg-edit-as-org' function I got an error about
  a missing outshine variable (something about comments, IIRC)
- I installed outshine, and restarted emacs to make sure the autoloads
  were loaded
- tried again on some email, and still there was no outorg proposed, so
  I required it and outshine as well
- I then got the following error

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "before first heading")
  signal(error ("before first heading"))
  error("before first heading")
  outline-back-to-heading(INVISIBLE-OK)
  outorg-copy-and-convert()
  outorg-edit-as-org(nil)

My questions are:
- Is this a bug?
- does outorg require outshine to work? If so, it may be good to mark
the latter as a dependency of the former.
- there is no installation instructions on the package description on
MELPA. Where can I find the "installation description" referred to
above?

Thanks,

Alan

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Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

Hello,

> On 2014-07-09 09:49, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Yes, I use Gnus and thus write my mails in message-mode. 
>>
>> My setup is the standard outshine.el + outorg.el setup, since it works
>> out-of-the-box with message-mode, given you follow the installation
>> description. 
>
> I've given this a try, and it's not obvious how to make it work. This is
> what I did:
>
> - installed outorg through MELPA

You *need* outshine too, navi-mode is a nice addition. The 3 libs belong
together somehow, outshine is the core library.

> - tried on an email, as no outorg function was loaded, I evaluated
>  '(require 'outorg')'

since navi-mode requires outorg, and outshine has a soft-dependency to
outorg, I don't have that explicitly in my init.el.

> - upon calling the 'outorg-edit-as-org' function I got an error about
>   a missing outshine variable (something about comments, IIRC)
> - I installed outshine, and restarted emacs to make sure the autoloads
>   were loaded
> - tried again on some email, and still there was no outorg proposed, so
>   I required it and outshine as well
> - I then got the following error
>
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "before first heading")
>   signal(error ("before first heading"))
>   error("before first heading")
>   outline-back-to-heading(INVISIBLE-OK)
>   outorg-copy-and-convert()
>   outorg-edit-as-org(nil)
>
> My questions are:
> - Is this a bug?

I hope (and think) not.

Looks like the hooks are not set. Here (again) my configuration from
init.el: 

,----
| (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
| (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
| ;; more hooks for other major-modes ...
|
| ;; outorg                         ; <= required indirectly
| ;; (require 'outorg)
| 
| ;; outshine
| (require 'outshine)
| (add-hook 'outline-minor-mode-hook
|           'outshine-hook-function) ; <= important!
| 
| (setq outshine-use-speed-commands t)
| 
| ;; navi-mode                       ; <= optional
| (require 'navi-mode)
| 
| ;; poporg                          ; <= optional
| (require 'poporg)
`----

You need to set this too in your init.el (*before* outline is loaded):

,----
| (defvar outline-minor-mode-prefix "\M-#")
`----

Restarting Emacs once after installation is a good idea. Then it should
work, let me know if you still have troubles.

> - does outorg require outshine to work? If so, it may be good to mark
> the latter as a dependency of the former.

Yes. 
With "mark the latter as a dependency of the former" you mean in the
MELPA package description?

> - there is no installation instructions on the package description on
> MELPA. Where can I find the "installation description" referred to
> above?

,----
| https://github.com/tj64/outshine
| https://github.com/tj64/outorg
| https://github.com/tj64/navi
`----

or  

,----
| http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-outside-org.html
`----

but the excerpt above from my init.el should do the job.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Alan Schmitt]

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Hello Thorsten,

On 2014-07-10 15:27, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:

> Looks like the hooks are not set. Here (again) my configuration from
> init.el: 
>
> ,----
> | (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
> | (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
> | ;; more hooks for other major-modes ...
> |
> | ;; outorg                         ; <= required indirectly
> | ;; (require 'outorg)
> | 
> | ;; outshine
> | (require 'outshine)
> | (add-hook 'outline-minor-mode-hook
> |           'outshine-hook-function) ; <= important!
> | 
> | (setq outshine-use-speed-commands t)
> | 
> | ;; navi-mode                       ; <= optional
> | (require 'navi-mode)
> | 
> | ;; poporg                          ; <= optional
> | (require 'poporg)
> `----

Adding these lines worked. I think I was missing both the outline mode
and the outshine hook.

>> - does outorg require outshine to work? If so, it may be good to mark
>> the latter as a dependency of the former.
>
> Yes. 
> With "mark the latter as a dependency of the former" you mean in the
> MELPA package description?

Yes, or adding an explicit dependency in MELPA such that if one
installs outorg, then outshine is automatically installed.

>> - there is no installation instructions on the package description on
>> MELPA. Where can I find the "installation description" referred to
>> above?
>
> ,----
> | https://github.com/tj64/outshine
> | https://github.com/tj64/outorg
> | https://github.com/tj64/navi
> `----
>
> or  
>
> ,----
> | http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-outside-org.html
> `----

Adding these to the MELPA description would be quite useful.

Thanks again,

Alan

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Re: emails written in Org Mode

[John Kitchin]

Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?

I played around with using a heading with properties to send an
email. Basically the heading is the subject, you set some properties
about TO, CC, etc... and the heading content is the body. You just put
your cursor in the heading and run M-x email-heading. You can see the
code here https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L31

and

https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L35

It saves some details in properties, like when it was sent, etc... It is
occasionally useful to me.


Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>
>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>> full
>> org-mode).
>
> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
> clients. Will you provide some information about this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  -k.
>
> [1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>
>

-- 
-----------------------------------
John Kitchin
Professor
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Nick Dokos]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?
>

... or, depending on what one wants to do, adding one of the minor modes
(orgstruct-mode, orgstruct++-mode, orgtbl-mode) to message-mode buffers
may be enough.

Nick

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Ken Mankoff]

Hi All,

Thanks for the suggestions.

orgstruct++-mode and orgtbl-mode help a lot. It would be nice to be able
to execute code too. 

I have an email in to the mu4e group about just switching to org-mode
and then back to message-mode. Since mu4e isn't gnus, and doesn't use
plain message-mode as the major mode, I need to switch back to the mu4e
compose mode, but it lists as "m4e:compose" in the modeline, and that
isn't a major mode I can figure out how to switch to.

Thanks,

  -k.


On 2014-07-09 at 16:03, Nick Dokos wrote:
> John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
>> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?
>>
>
> ... or, depending on what one wants to do, adding one of the minor modes
> (orgstruct-mode, orgstruct++-mode, orgtbl-mode) to message-mode buffers
> may be enough.
>
> Nick

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Ken,

> orgstruct++-mode and orgtbl-mode help a lot. It would be nice to be able
> to execute code too. 

they are both nice but not the "real thing"

> I have an email in to the mu4e group about just switching to org-mode
> and then back to message-mode. Since mu4e isn't gnus, and doesn't use
> plain message-mode as the major mode, I need to switch back to the mu4e
> compose mode, but it lists as "m4e:compose" in the modeline, and that
> isn't a major mode I can figure out how to switch to.

When you start writing an email in mu4e, could you just:

 1. do

 ,----
 | M-: major-mode
 `----
 
 2. do M-x mark-whole-buffer & M-x kill-ring-save, i.e.
 
 ,----
 | C-x h
 | M-w
 `----

and post the results?

And maybe figure out if in the mu4e world there exists a customizable
variable like:

,----[ C-h v mail-header-separator RET ]
| mail-header-separator is a variable defined in `sendmail.el'.
| Its value is "--text follows this line--"
| 
| Documentation:
| Line used to separate headers from text in messages being composed.
| You can customize this variable.
`----

This would probably give me all the info I need to adapt outorg.

> On 2014-07-09 at 16:03, Nick Dokos wrote:

>> John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
>>> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?
>>>
>>
>> ... or, depending on what one wants to do, adding one of the minor modes
>> (orgstruct-mode, orgstruct++-mode, orgtbl-mode) to message-mode buffers
>> may be enough.


-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Ken Mankoff]

Hi Thorsten and others,

Thanks to your help I have it set up well. Here is my setup, based on
the idea from John Kitchin to just switch major modes:

1. I've set mu4e so that the reply line starts with "*" (an Org
   section) like this:

   #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
   (setq message-citation-line-format "* On %Y-%m-%d at %R, %f wrote:")
   #+END_SRC

   Now, the quoted part of the email is its own section.

2. I've added a function to switch between org-mode and
   mu4e-compose-mode, and bound it to C-@, so I can easily swap modes:

   #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
   (defun kdm-mu4e-org-compose ()
   "Switch to/from mu4e-compose-mode and org-mode"
   (interactive)
   (if (eq 'mu4e-compose-mode (buffer-local-value 'major-mode (current-buffer)))
       (org-mode)
     (mu4e-compose-mode)))
   (global-set-key "\M-@" 'kdm-mu4e-org-compose)
   #+END_SRC

With this, I read emails in mu4e. When I hit reply, I reply
normally. If I want to drop into Org mode for the reply, I do so with
M-@, use Org, and then M-@ back to mu4e before sending.

I've just set this up. We'll see how well it works. mu4e used to
support Org and I'm sure it will in the future, and then things might
be better integrated, but I think this will work for now.

  -k.

* On 2014-07-10 at 04:28, Thorsten Jolitz wrote:
> Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
>> orgstruct++-mode and orgtbl-mode help a lot. It would be nice to be able
>> to execute code too. 
>
> they are both nice but not the "real thing"
>
>> I have an email in to the mu4e group about just switching to org-mode
>> and then back to message-mode. Since mu4e isn't gnus, and doesn't use
>> plain message-mode as the major mode, I need to switch back to the mu4e
>> compose mode, but it lists as "m4e:compose" in the modeline, and that
>> isn't a major mode I can figure out how to switch to.
>
> When you start writing an email in mu4e, could you just:
>
>  1. do
>
>  ,----
>  | M-: major-mode
>  `----
>  
>  2. do M-x mark-whole-buffer & M-x kill-ring-save, i.e.
>  
>  ,----
>  | C-x h
>  | M-w
>  `----
>
> and post the results?
>
> And maybe figure out if in the mu4e world there exists a customizable
> variable like:
>
> ,----[ C-h v mail-header-separator RET ]
> | mail-header-separator is a variable defined in `sendmail.el'.
> | Its value is "--text follows this line--"
> | 
> | Documentation:
> | Line used to separate headers from text in messages being composed.
> | You can customize this variable.
> `----
>
> This would probably give me all the info I need to adapt outorg.
>
>> On 2014-07-09 at 16:03, Nick Dokos wrote:
>
>>> John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
>>>> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?
>>>>
>>>
>>> ... or, depending on what one wants to do, adding one of the minor modes
>>> (orgstruct-mode, orgstruct++-mode, orgtbl-mode) to message-mode buffers
>>> may be enough.

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Thorsten and others,
>
> Thanks to your help I have it set up well. Here is my setup, based on
> the idea from John Kitchin to just switch major modes:

Just FYI, after having a look at this

,----
| http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/EV-Overview.html
`----

I think that mu4e-compose-mode is basically a modified
message-mode. Since I use

,----
| (and (derived-mode-p 'message-mode) ...)
`----

in outorg to check major-mode, I would guess that outorg works out of
the box with mu4e-compose-mode after adding outline-minor-mode to its
mode-hook:

,----
| (when (require 'outline nil t)
| (add-hook 'emacs-lisp-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
| (add-hook 'message-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode)
| (add-hook 'mu4e-compose-mode-hook 'outline-minor-mode))
| 
| ;; outshine
| (require 'outshine nil t)
| (add-hook 'outline-minor-mode-hook 'outshine-hook-function)
| (setq outshine-use-speed-commands t)
`----

I know nothing about mu4e and don't have it installed, so I cannot test
this (will somebody do?), but I'm pretty sure this is enough to make it
work with outorg.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Eric Abrahamsen]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?
>
> I played around with using a heading with properties to send an
> email. Basically the heading is the subject, you set some properties
> about TO, CC, etc... and the heading content is the body. You just put
> your cursor in the heading and run M-x email-heading. You can see the
> code here https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L31
>
> and
>
> https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L35
>
> It saves some details in properties, like when it was sent, etc... It is
> occasionally useful to me.

Org-mime in contrib/lisp does pretty much exactly this!

>
>
> Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>>
>>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>>> full
>>> org-mode).
>>
>> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
>> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
>> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
>> clients. Will you provide some information about this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>  -k.
>>
>> [1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>>
>>

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> Can't you just change your buffer mode to org-mode, compose, change back
> to message-mode and send? Did you want to do more than that?

Ok, message-mode is a text mode just like Org-mode and not a programming
mode, so it is not the perfect use-case for outshine/outorg, and it
would be possible to just change major-modes.

But why not resuse outorg for this if it already exists and works with
many other major-modes? The cost for typing M-# # is low (just as typing
C-c '), and it feels much smoother to switch to a temporary edit-buffer
than to change major-modes, and if only for the fact that you normally
don't have an Org-mode headline in a message-mode buffer, and Org
without a headline is like a cake without sugar, so you have to add one
manually to make things work and get the fontification.

Outorg does offer some export related conveniences too:

,----[ C-h f outorg-edit-as-org RET ]
| outorg-edit-as-org is an interactive Lisp function in `outorg.el'.
| 
| It is bound to M-# #, <menu-bar> <Outshine> <Edit As Org>.
| 
| (outorg-edit-as-org &optional ARG)
| 
| Convert and copy to temporary Org buffer
| 
| With ARG, act conditional on the raw value of ARG:
| 
| | prefix | raw | action 1          | action 2                       |
| |--------+-----+-------------------+--------------------------------|
| | C-u    | (4) | edit-whole-buffer | ---                            |
| | C-1    |   1 | edit-whole-buffer | insert default export-template |
| | C-2    |   2 | edit-whole-buffer | prompt user for template-file  |
| | C-3    |   3 | edit-whole-buffer | insert & keep default template |
| | C-4    |   4 | edit-whole-buffer | insert & keep template-file    |
| | C-5    |   5 | propagate changes | ---                            |
| 
| [back]
`----

i.e. you can temporarily (or persistently) add a default (or custom)
header to the message if you want to export it from Org-mode just by
giving a prefix arg. And, after inserting more headlines, you can decide
if you want to edit only the subtree at point (default) or the whole
buffer (with prefix arg).

> I played around with using a heading with properties to send an
> email. Basically the heading is the subject, you set some properties
> about TO, CC, etc... and the heading content is the body. You just put
> your cursor in the heading and run M-x email-heading. You can see the
> code here https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L31
>
> and
>
> https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L35
>
> It saves some details in properties, like when it was sent, etc... It is
> occasionally useful to me.

Using outshine/outorg with message-mode is just a nice side-effect,
their main purpose is of course bringing the look&feel of Org-mode to
programming modes. But they are easy to adapt to message-mode and very
smooth to use - so why not take advantage of this? 

> Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>>
>>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>>> full
>>> org-mode).
>>
>> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
>> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
>> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
>> clients. Will you provide some information about this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>  -k.
>>
>> [1] http://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e.html
>>
>>

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Esben Stien]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> I played around with using a heading with properties to send an
> email. Basically the heading is the subject, you set some properties
> about TO, CC, etc... and the heading content is the body. You just put
> your cursor in the heading and run M-x email-heading. You can see the
> code here https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L31

That's like the coolest thing ever. I need to try that;)

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
           sip:b0ef@   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Esben Stien]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> I played around with using a heading with properties to send an
> email. Basically the heading is the subject, you set some properties
> about TO, CC, etc... and the heading content is the body. You just put
> your cursor in the heading and run M-x email-heading. You can see the
> code here https://github.com/jkitchin/jmax/blob/master/email.el#L31
> It saves some details in properties, like when it was sent, etc... It is
> occasionally useful to me.

Do you have any means to bring replies and such back into the org file?

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
           sip:b0ef@   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Esben Stien]

Esben Stien <b0ef@esben-stien.name> writes:

> Do you have any means to bring replies and such back into the org file?

This seems like it could be a really good thing. 

To be able to move the discussion to the relevant org file and then
structure it and prioritize/schedule from there. 

It seems a lot better than to have all these different discussions
inside gnus, so I'd really like to try this. 

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
           sip:b0ef@   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[John Kitchin]

I usually do this kind of tracking with a link to the email instead. It
is not automated communication between email and org, and it is not that
complicated, but it does what I need, when I need it.

Esben Stien <b0ef@esben-stien.name> writes:

> Esben Stien <b0ef@esben-stien.name> writes:
>
>> Do you have any means to bring replies and such back into the org file?
>
> This seems like it could be a really good thing. 
>
> To be able to move the discussion to the relevant org file and then
> structure it and prioritize/schedule from there. 
>
> It seems a lot better than to have all these different discussions
> inside gnus, so I'd really like to try this. 

-- 
-----------------------------------
John Kitchin
Professor
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Eric Abrahamsen]

John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> I usually do this kind of tracking with a link to the email instead. It
> is not automated communication between email and org, and it is not that
> complicated, but it does what I need, when I need it.

I will stop with shameless plugs at some point here, but this is exactly
what Gnorb does -- uses org to keep track of email conversations.
Tracking is done with vanilla org links and state-change log notes, but
the various gnorb functions make the whole process pretty much
automated.

https://github.com/girzel/gnorb#using-gnorb-for-tracking-email-todos

> Esben Stien <b0ef@esben-stien.name> writes:
>
>> Esben Stien <b0ef@esben-stien.name> writes:
>>
>>> Do you have any means to bring replies and such back into the org file?
>>
>> This seems like it could be a really good thing. 
>>
>> To be able to move the discussion to the relevant org file and then
>> structure it and prioritize/schedule from there. 
>>
>> It seems a lot better than to have all these different discussions
>> inside gnus, so I'd really like to try this. 

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>> I usually do this kind of tracking with a link to the email instead. It
>> is not automated communication between email and org, and it is not that
>> complicated, but it does what I need, when I need it.
>
> I will stop with shameless plugs at some point here, but this is exactly
> what Gnorb does ...

Why? Nothing more frustrating than implementing a *brandnew* idea only
to find out later on that idea & implementation already existed. I would
not call this 'shameless plugs' but rather necessary and useful library
advertising, but maybe I'm biased since I tend to do the same thing ;)

PS 

Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&org is
definitely interesting for me.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>> I usually do this kind of tracking with a link to the email instead. It
>>> is not automated communication between email and org, and it is not that
>>> complicated, but it does what I need, when I need it.
>>
>> I will stop with shameless plugs at some point here, but this is exactly
>> what Gnorb does ...
>
> Why? Nothing more frustrating than implementing a *brandnew* idea only
> to find out later on that idea & implementation already existed. I would
> not call this 'shameless plugs' but rather necessary and useful library
> advertising, but maybe I'm biased since I tend to do the same thing ;)

It's true it's hard to keep quiet when people are mulling over the
*exact* thing your library does... :)

> PS 
>
> Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&org is
> definitely interesting for me.

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Alan Schmitt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 644 bytes --]

On 2014-07-15 02:57, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:

> Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&org is
> definitely interesting for me.

I highly recommend this library. I haven't scratched the surface, but
one great "aha" moment was when I was reading in email in gnus and saw
a message in the minibuffer about a relevant task from my todo list.

I mostly use it to track "waiting for" sent email: after sending an
email, with one keystroke I can create a waiting for task with a link to
the sent email. I also use it to create "reply to" tasks.

Alan

-- 
OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 494 bytes --]

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 938 bytes --]

Hello,

This is very interesting indeed. But is there somewhere a good tutorial to
read or video to see ? It would be helpful for people who want to use Gnus
+ Org-mode in optimal way.

Best wishes,

Jo.


2014-07-15 16:11 GMT+02:00 Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org>:

> On 2014-07-15 02:57, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&org is
> > definitely interesting for me.
>
> I highly recommend this library. I haven't scratched the surface, but
> one great "aha" moment was when I was reading in email in gnus and saw
> a message in the minibuffer about a relevant task from my todo list.
>
> I mostly use it to track "waiting for" sent email: after sending an
> email, with one keystroke I can create a waiting for task with a link to
> the sent email. I also use it to create "reply to" tasks.
>
> Alan
>
> --
> OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1521 bytes --]

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> This is very interesting indeed. But is there somewhere a good
> tutorial to read or video to see ? It would be helpful for people who
> want to use Gnus + Org-mode in optimal way.

Someone asked me about a screencast recently, around the same time that
I realized the README isn't actually very readable! Part of getting the
package Elpa-ready will also be writing a proper Info manual.

For the time being, the very basics of email tracking (though Gnorb does
a lot more) would look like this:

1. Start by making a TODO which represents a message that you have to
   send. That could be using plain old capture on an incoming message
   you want to reply to. Or using gnorb-gnus-outgoing-do-todo on a
   message while you're composing it. Or just typing out a TODO. One way
   or the other, you want a TODO heading that contains a mailto link, or
   a bbdb link, or a gnus message link (or some combination thereof).

2. Call gnorb-org-handle-mail on that heading. You'll end up composing a
   message of some sort.

3. Send the message. You'll be taken back to the original TODO heading,
   and prompted to take a note or change the TODO state. For example,
   from EMAIL to WAIT. It's useful to enable state-change logging.

4. Wait for a reply. When you get it, Gnorb will know (I hope) that the
   reply is relevant to the original TODO, and will prompt you to call
   gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on the message. Do that.

5. Again you'll be taken back to the TODO, and prompted to take a note
   or change the TODO state -- for example, from WAIT to REPLY. A link
   to the received message can (and should) be inserted into the
   state-change drawer.

6. Go back to step two, and repeat until your email conversation is
   done.

What it boils down to is calling gnorb-org-handle-mail on your TODO
heading, and gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on received messages.
Everything else is gravy. (But there's a lot of gravy!)

The moment something doesn't work the way you like it, look at the
customization options.

Maybe what I need here is a diagram...

Eric

> 2014-07-15 16:11 GMT+02:00 Alan Schmitt <
> alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org>:
>
>     On 2014-07-15 02:57, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:
>    
>     > Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&
>     org is
>     > definitely interesting for me.
>    
>     I highly recommend this library. I haven't scratched the surface,
>     but
>     one great "aha" moment was when I was reading in email in gnus
>     and saw
>     a message in the minibuffer about a relevant task from my todo
>     list.
>    
>     I mostly use it to track "waiting for" sent email: after sending
>     an
>     email, with one keystroke I can create a waiting for task with a
>     link to
>     the sent email. I also use it to create "reply to" tasks.
>    
>     Alan
>    
>     --
>     OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3275 bytes --]

Many thanks for this effort, Eric. I will try to test Gnorb as soon as
possible.

Best wishes

Jo.


2014-07-16 5:03 GMT+02:00 Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>:

> Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is very interesting indeed. But is there somewhere a good
> > tutorial to read or video to see ? It would be helpful for people who
> > want to use Gnus + Org-mode in optimal way.
>
> Someone asked me about a screencast recently, around the same time that
> I realized the README isn't actually very readable! Part of getting the
> package Elpa-ready will also be writing a proper Info manual.
>
> For the time being, the very basics of email tracking (though Gnorb does
> a lot more) would look like this:
>
> 1. Start by making a TODO which represents a message that you have to
>    send. That could be using plain old capture on an incoming message
>    you want to reply to. Or using gnorb-gnus-outgoing-do-todo on a
>    message while you're composing it. Or just typing out a TODO. One way
>    or the other, you want a TODO heading that contains a mailto link, or
>    a bbdb link, or a gnus message link (or some combination thereof).
>
> 2. Call gnorb-org-handle-mail on that heading. You'll end up composing a
>    message of some sort.
>
> 3. Send the message. You'll be taken back to the original TODO heading,
>    and prompted to take a note or change the TODO state. For example,
>    from EMAIL to WAIT. It's useful to enable state-change logging.
>
> 4. Wait for a reply. When you get it, Gnorb will know (I hope) that the
>    reply is relevant to the original TODO, and will prompt you to call
>    gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on the message. Do that.
>
> 5. Again you'll be taken back to the TODO, and prompted to take a note
>    or change the TODO state -- for example, from WAIT to REPLY. A link
>    to the received message can (and should) be inserted into the
>    state-change drawer.
>
> 6. Go back to step two, and repeat until your email conversation is
>    done.
>
> What it boils down to is calling gnorb-org-handle-mail on your TODO
> heading, and gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on received messages.
> Everything else is gravy. (But there's a lot of gravy!)
>
> The moment something doesn't work the way you like it, look at the
> customization options.
>
> Maybe what I need here is a diagram...
>
> Eric
>
> > 2014-07-15 16:11 GMT+02:00 Alan Schmitt <
> > alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org>:
> >
> >     On 2014-07-15 02:57, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >     > Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&
> >     org is
> >     > definitely interesting for me.
> >
> >     I highly recommend this library. I haven't scratched the surface,
> >     but
> >     one great "aha" moment was when I was reading in email in gnus
> >     and saw
> >     a message in the minibuffer about a relevant task from my todo
> >     list.
> >
> >     I mostly use it to track "waiting for" sent email: after sending
> >     an
> >     email, with one keystroke I can create a waiting for task with a
> >     link to
> >     the sent email. I also use it to create "reply to" tasks.
> >
> >     Alan
> >
> >     --
> >     OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4381 bytes --]

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> This is very interesting indeed. But is there somewhere a good
> tutorial to read or video to see ? It would be helpful for people who
> want to use Gnus + Org-mode in optimal way.

Someone asked me about a screencast recently, around the same time that
I realized the README isn't actually very readable! Part of getting the
package Elpa-ready will also be writing a proper Info manual.

For the time being, the very basics of email tracking (though Gnorb does
a lot more) would look like this:

1. Start by making a TODO which represents a message that you have to
   send. That could be using plain old capture on an incoming message
   you want to reply to. Or using gnorb-gnus-outgoing-do-todo on a
   message while you're composing it. Or just typing out a TODO. One way
   or the other, you want a TODO heading that contains a mailto link, or
   a bbdb link, or a gnus message link (or some combination thereof).

2. Call gnorb-org-handle-mail on that heading. You'll end up composing a
   message of some sort.

3. Send the message. You'll be taken back to the original TODO heading,
   and prompted to take a note or change the TODO state. For example,
   from EMAIL to WAIT. It's useful to enable state-change logging.

4. Wait for a reply. When you get it, Gnorb will know (I hope) that the
   reply is relevant to the original TODO, and will prompt you to call
   gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on the message. Do that.

5. Again you'll be taken back to the TODO, and prompted to take a note
   or change the TODO state -- for example, from WAIT to REPLY. A link
   to the received message can (and should) be inserted into the
   state-change drawer.

6. Go back to step two, and repeat until your email conversation is
   done.

What it boils down to is calling gnorb-org-handle-mail on your TODO
heading, and gnorb-gnus-incoming-do-todo on received messages.
Everything else is gravy. (But there's a lot of gravy!)

The moment something doesn't work the way you like it, look at the
customization options.

Maybe what I need here is a diagram...

Eric

> 2014-07-15 16:11 GMT+02:00 Alan Schmitt <
> alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org>:
>
>     On 2014-07-15 02:57, Thorsten Jolitz <tjolitz@gmail.com> writes:
>    
>     > Hadn't have the time to try Gnorb, but the combination of gnus&
>     org is
>     > definitely interesting for me.
>    
>     I highly recommend this library. I haven't scratched the surface,
>     but
>     one great "aha" moment was when I was reading in email in gnus
>     and saw
>     a message in the minibuffer about a relevant task from my todo
>     list.
>    
>     I mostly use it to track "waiting for" sent email: after sending
>     an
>     email, with one keystroke I can create a waiting for task with a
>     link to
>     the sent email. I also use it to create "reply to" tasks.
>    
>     Alan
>    
>     --
>     OpenPGP Key ID : 040D0A3B4ED2E5C7

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Noorul Islam K M]

Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>
>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in full
>> org-mode).
>
> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
> clients. Will you provide some information about this?
>

Are you looking for something like this [1] ?

Regards,
Noorul

[1] http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#OrgStructModeForMail 

Re: emails written in Org Mode

[Thorsten Jolitz]

Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:

Hi Ken, 

> Hi Thorsten,  On a recent thread you wrote: 
>
>> ... *outorg-edit-buffer* (where I write my message-mode email in
>> full
>> org-mode).
>
> I already write emails in emacs. I'm interested in being able to compose
> emails using Org Mode. I see you use gnus. I use mu4e[1]. I wonder if
> your setup is gnus-specific or might work with other emacs mail
> clients. Will you provide some information about this?

just to let you know - I answered your mail, but apparently my post (as
well as some other recent posts of mine) did not get through (yet?) due
to mailing list problems.

-- 
cheers,
Thorsten