From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Kitchin Subject: Re: Citation syntax: a revised proposal Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:42:54 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87k2zjnc0e.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87a90e83ki.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51893) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLx2-000500-W4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:43:06 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLwz-0003Lv-NK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:43:04 -0500 Received: from smtp.andrew.cmu.edu ([128.2.105.204]:52277) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YNLwz-0003LZ-Ho for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:43:01 -0500 In-reply-to: <87a90e83ki.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric S Fraga Cc: Richard Lawrence , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Eric S Fraga writes: > On Saturday, 14 Feb 2015 at 18:29, Richard Lawrence wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> Since discussion seems to have petered out on the previous thread (see: >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/94524), I took some time to >> go back over the discussion and write up a concrete proposal for >> citation syntax. > > +1 emphatically. I still remain somewhat on the positive side of 0. While the focus of these conversations has been on syntax (a necessary step to move forward), there has been little focus on function. Citations in org are /far/ more than just references in the text for me. They are functional links, gateways to a lot of information connected to the citation. My org-files are much more useful than the PDF manuscripts that get exported. It is hard to explain what that means exactly, so if you have the time check these videos out. The last one shows the most integrated capabilities we use. org-ref show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvpSVl4_dg org-ref in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zya8SfmCtFA org-ref + helm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cEb6F9AEu0 These features beat the pants off every citation manager software I have ever seen, and over the past decade I have tried a lot of them. There is in my opinion no syntax worth giving this up for. I am only moderately sure the proposed syntax can be used the way we use links. I am only mildly concerned some things will be too difficult to do that are currently possible, e.g. sorting a multcite, or rearranging them with arrow keys. Who knows, some things might be simpler. > I would like to see something along these lines implemented so we can > "suck it and see"... I also would like to see if it is workable. There is nothing to lose in trying. org-ref will always be an alternative option, and if the new syntax is extendable enough it might even replace the citation links. > For my use case, you've covered everything and, as John Kitchin says, > most cite insertions could be automated through appropriate code and key > bindings but, very importantly, common uses are quite straightforward to > type directly. > > With respect to the bibliography database, for completeness, I would > like to see linking with org-bibtex data instead of bibtex etc. I think we can come up with a reasonable, user-customizable api that would support multiple data sources. A user would customize the click and export function. There might even be simple out of the box default functions for org-bibtex and bibtex, and zotero through zotxt. For the first two, the click function could just open the entry in the bibliography file. > > Thanks, > eric -- Professor John Kitchin Doherty Hall A207F Department of Chemical Engineering Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 412-268-7803 @johnkitchin http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu