From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0JEEOg7tq2PJ1QAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 08:15:27 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id iJ0EOg7tq2M4jgAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 08:15:26 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68D22C1A9 for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 08:15:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAQe8-0000mA-Nf; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 02:14:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAQe2-0000k5-4X for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 02:14:34 -0500 Received: from basilikum.nobis-admin.de ([89.238.71.130]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pAQdz-0004oE-Op for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Dec 2022 02:14:33 -0500 From: Stefan Nobis DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=snobis.de; s=default; t=1672211666; bh=5vETLZM742lXHwPfi9Btyc3smHtXWca7svk2IEFIHBI=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=aXYKzefugCInHdj2MgXsnVbKMGxReKry6p1BaOgYTuuyhc0IEmFtemv0IWFVy3eZg pBvFNlvs6NThlXsHnzfYzaFEFjFZ2H+vwjsGYmGQOf/uN2TSZaUdGwYRSkmaY0z8RD z4yNXVDsp7Z7KZ5yLECPTPXKMslRQRRuzf9fAWog= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Is the cascading logic of outlines a feature, or a design bug? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1672211726; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UyTDz8xqlHHGaUOr0Z0ApW/Ty/4NnwW3WwEpwTd85V7Bb/iz7X83MpmW5puS8UK+fmqZQB apGpuyogY5sR37mCcrGED0+fjrojPCRYfk4Bp+/Bi9ZyhzsQOnxOCn+vxZBhCwHQ5h/Syn 5V58nEzpO9shYQ9+8l0DdO56nc9laQxTVAnz4+G24QpjEPDOZJZqWYsqRXz59FThdnIUZv RwFF1pCJogIXu/fmQUTutX4f624ZUGxfc+QXAnd+gybWYJYp8e4b62Qv8WZhfkCPLT90OQ 3ZAtDOEheUUgwJEYSfSIA8VCfd0lQMC3nFn/QvpMQNf4T1vIQOOcub0H3qCJCQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=aXYKzefu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1672211726; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Fg3o8aHgr8MclTW6L5beubQ8UTSF1JhfuU/n98xInX0=; b=UgXAhd96Gx+AaHw80KH4msA4FQQRMQz7JhyoP2fMChqh6jOJct4YEOhJMqvoCe42EwgPUP UqxKMzeg8vmKX7LgMixC3WujI6KhpL5sM7bVk9x38YYyhKMBQGL8aaSACQBoBN/J99Zf5J l93i/tPXDSrZqdYJa5KhHqLpvKnqWaOhc/5utPoaYwG+LTLyxFMxq4dKGPsmTGugGYHc7A JUrgjTUZzscGBsYvO0EcUwdmIJxx7AEGwNoaBWAX0VYRiYNKYL4eAwSzNN/sQMFXgs5BWB zqo59f2IEc3oPmZ68SqIl6ce88Atf0pkxuG3YcUe7OLyx1sFRf/0eXx0y0XENw== X-Spam-Score: -6.33 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 68D22C1A9 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=aXYKzefu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.33 X-TUID: lfJB4R9A1sT9 abq@bitrot.link writes: > Likewise, is the inability to close an org-mode outline section > without starting a new section really a feature? I think so. :) First, technically, it makes the sections (and their contents) a tree instead of a graph (DAG) and trees are easier to understand and handle. As sections are a quite essential and important data structure of Org, it usually means that it would be hard to change it (meaning that it could affect a really big part of the code base). Another rather technical point is, that most export formats like HTML and LaTeX/PDF are also tree like structures (regarding sections). Therefore it is quite a challenge to export a DAG like structure to these formats. But also semantically I would say it is a feature. Have you ever seen a book, longer web page, or even article (with multiple sections) that tries to close one section and continue any previous sibling or its parent? I have never seen such kind of textual structuring and my guess is, that this would be hard for a reader to understand and follow. If the intermediate text is small, just make it a list (maybe a description list). If a new (sub-)section seems a good idea, then structure everything accordingly and tree-like. For example: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- * Topic Some initial words. ** Subtopic 1 More text. ** Subtopic 2 Another paragraph. ** Other Aspects There may be more to say. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- IMHO there is always a way to structure sections, such that a tree like structure suffices. And IMHO this is easier to read an follow. If you try to use Org for other kinds of data and this data is naturally structured like a DAG (or even a cyclic graph), then I think a database or other means are better suited than Org. -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.