From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id WB01BTCf1l/KCgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 23:09:36 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id QNLxADCf1l8tZwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 23:09:36 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76DCE94038E for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 23:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58388 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koaUg-0004Ho-E4 for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:09:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koaU8-0004Hi-BV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:09:00 -0500 Received: from server173-4.web-hosting.com ([68.65.122.210]:56620) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1koaU4-00080u-QN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:08:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isnotmyreal.name; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From:Date:MIME-Version:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=FBUNRv3rLNaLet94k96HZEwIDYHzGGmgfJgJJrOtSGg=; b=hS4XdGrVWdJDy0Ntdi4q+o8Ofz kAbntjUXcw8HbfBqQQGhFgQexx4vOWdUSYnKRR9npwr0E2GBNo3UafOEYLVxMBm0NzSkH/db4rpoo i4JNZ4jMKJmUInwhQ6qxEnuBkpiaGBYr9MuDFOGeLNTYDZkxg+cLDI6vBA5mOvpSdcdftDlWngEoT msroPngCmPU/gNRRa5F5SukQuRRHmOgLxuQ6g6xmtCoRNUHgEmKrzGfFibrmoZvY2gGNyMFXxmrZ9 sUuEeuzOY6t0j7hDkcGbC02R/JjkDSY3SfxuT5ef2w+IQgR8/ClvSDeImBQVZyGY7w7DTeVBB2+6w +V9lzpxQ==; Received: from [::1] (port=46110 helo=server173.web-hosting.com) by server173.web-hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1koaTy-003ljV-Gj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:08:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 18:08:50 -0500 From: TRS-80 To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Org Capture Menu cannot be fully viewed In-Reply-To: References: <87y2i2ttl7.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server173.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - isnotmyreal.name X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server173.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name X-Authenticated-Sender: server173.web-hosting.com: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Received-SPF: pass client-ip=68.65.122.210; envelope-from=lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name; helo=server173-4.web-hosting.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.30 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=isnotmyreal.name header.s=default header.b=hS4XdGrV; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 76DCE94038E X-Spam-Score: -1.30 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: bjRnojeig4Bo On 2020-12-12 23:57, pietru@caramail.com wrote: > TRS-80 wrote: >> If you care to share a slightly bigger picture view, particularly >> about the structure of the data you are trying to capture (and/or, >> your workflow) we could likely come up with something that would work >> much better for you than a capture template, at least in this >> particular case. > > In many instances, previous work would have been done, so people would > want to quickly skip entries. I think perhaps plain old Org headline folding might be great for quickly navigating to the incomplete portion of the document? Especially if the sections each might contain a lot of prose and/or notes, and/or the sections are logically organized in any sort of tree structure. If it's more about key: value type data, I would (again) recommend Org Properties. I'm sure there might be a way (or we could whip one up) to help automate searching through the document looking for empty Properties if that's the sort of workflow you would like. > The plan for Org-Mode Capture is primarily for such Exclusive and > Unsystematic Surveys where we do not necessarily use standard forms. > I'm not sure if you capture the drift concerning unsystematic surveys. > Most times I cannot tell you exactly what people in the field came up > with. The pace can be rapid and some could be working in challenging > conditions. The plan is for the Crew Chief to make a quick template, > and which could change each day. maintain and review notebooks and > records and overseeing quality control is done daily. It is customary > to split the day. One of the best ways we improve survey efficiency > is to anticipate bottlenecks and invent creative logistical solutions > right in the field. > > The long template situation then occurs. You can access better than > myself as you know what org and org-capture can do and what not. Overall, what I am imagining is some set of Orgmode files as templates. Each template containing all requirements of data collection for that type. So you would simply make new copy of empty template file for each new instance of that particular case / template. Inside would be headings organizing the different parts of the survey or whatever the work is. And then Org Properties as needed for key: value data, located within the tree structure on headings as appropriate (remembering that Property inheritance is possible). You could even use the TODO functionality to mark sections as being complete. It then becomes easy to find sections which have not been finished yet. With org-log-done and org-log-into-drawer (and other related) settings you could even have different teams make (timestamped) metadata notes about what they accomplished, making it easier to hand off partially completed work between teams and allow them to communicate between each other in a sort of side channel without that info being directly in the report. As you can see, there are often many options, so it's mostly about "what workflow do you want?" ;) > I briefly reported on what we found problematic in practice. But > we're at the beginning of this, and would likely report on other > things as we progress. Yes, please let us know how you are getting on! > Nevertheless, we see some aspects where your scheme can be improved to > cater for more serious work. Emacs is quite good software. This is probably the strongest point. Emacs can be almost whatever you want it to be. Even non-programmers (with a little effort) can stitch together their own custom interfaces using some combination of package(s), built-in functionality, and perhaps a bit of Elisp. Which makes it a bit of a universal User Interface framework, in a way. > Hope my comments helped somewhat. Yes, I think so. Hopefully my replies will therefore heve been equally helpful to you. Cheers, TRS-80