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* Org to ConTeXt exporter?
@ 2020-12-28 13:38 Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2020-12-28 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: orgmode

Hi,

Just out of curiosity, I am wondering if there are plans to create an
Org to ConTeXt exporter in the future, or if there is already some work
in progress on this front.

I have to say that among TeX formats I tend to prefer LaTeX to ConTeXt;
but ConTeXt has very interesting features (grid typesetting, for
example) that LaTeX lacks (for now) and has a more monolithic structure,
that is, it does not need to be extended through packages as in LaTeX.

Regards,

Juan Manuel 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 13:38 Org to ConTeXt exporter? Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
  2020-12-28 15:38   ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 16:23   ` Diego Zamboni
  2021-01-08  2:37 ` Jason Ross
  2021-01-08  3:52 ` Jason Ross
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2020-12-28 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: orgmode


On 2020-12-28, at 14:38, Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just out of curiosity, I am wondering if there are plans to create an
> Org to ConTeXt exporter in the future, or if there is already some work
> in progress on this front.
>
> I have to say that among TeX formats I tend to prefer LaTeX to ConTeXt;
> but ConTeXt has very interesting features (grid typesetting, for
> example) that LaTeX lacks (for now) and has a more monolithic structure,
> that is, it does not need to be extended through packages as in LaTeX.

Creating an exporter from scratch is probably easier than you think.
A few years ago I planned a tutorial about this, but another job
happened, then covid happened etc.  Now that I finished some big project
taking me a lot of time, I might be tempted to revisit that.  Would
there be demand for a DYI Org-exporter-from-scratch tutorial?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2020-12-28 15:38   ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 16:09     ` Jonathan McHugh
  2020-12-28 16:23   ` Diego Zamboni
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2020-12-28 15:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcin Borkowski; +Cc: orgmode

Hello, Marcin,

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Creating an exporter from scratch is probably easier than you think.
> A few years ago I planned a tutorial about this, but another job
> happened, then covid happened etc.  Now that I finished some big project
> taking me a lot of time, I might be tempted to revisit that.  Would
> there be demand for a DYI Org-exporter-from-scratch tutorial?

Thank you for your answer. Actually a tutorial on how to create an
exporter from scratch (I think) would be really interesting. Some time
ago I was tempted to start writing an exporter for ConTeXt, studying the
code of the other exporters, but for time and work reasons I left the
project abandoned.

If you finally write that tutorial, I could also translate it into
Spanish to spread it out among Spanish-speaking Org users.

Regards,

Juan Manuel 

> Best,



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 15:38   ` Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2020-12-28 16:09     ` Jonathan McHugh
  2020-12-28 17:54       ` Juan Manuel Macías
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan McHugh @ 2020-12-28 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hello \Context folks,

I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex.

As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migration to
Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitments
grew.

The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting
back to Latex.

However, I have  wondered if a possible shortcut is to compile a list of
the semantic differences between the two and attack it from there.

For example, the Context stub, 'From Latex to Context', gives some of the
distinctions:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt

... which then cites a 45 page pdf (which may (possibly) be a little out
of date, having been written in 2003):
http://www.berenddeboer.net/tex/LaTeX2ConTeXt.pdf

Perhaps looking at Org-Modes Latex exporter and determining the Context
equivalent would help? After all, they should be satisfing equivalent requirements.

Even better, if a modern list of equivalents were in a locality suitable
for non Org-Mode users then it may become easier for users from either
communities to feed off eachothers work a little easier.

If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing
expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm time....

Best wishes,


Jonathan

Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:

> Hello, Marcin,
>
> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> Creating an exporter from scratch is probably easier than you think.
>> A few years ago I planned a tutorial about this, but another job
>> happened, then covid happened etc.  Now that I finished some big project
>> taking me a lot of time, I might be tempted to revisit that.  Would
>> there be demand for a DYI Org-exporter-from-scratch tutorial?
>
> Thank you for your answer. Actually a tutorial on how to create an
> exporter from scratch (I think) would be really interesting. Some time
> ago I was tempted to start writing an exporter for ConTeXt, studying the
> code of the other exporters, but for time and work reasons I left the
> project abandoned.
>
> If you finally write that tutorial, I could also translate it into
> Spanish to spread it out among Spanish-speaking Org users.
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Manuel 
>
>> Best,


-- 
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
  2020-12-28 15:38   ` Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2020-12-28 16:23   ` Diego Zamboni
  2020-12-28 18:03     ` Juan Manuel Macías
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Diego Zamboni @ 2020-12-28 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcin Borkowski; +Cc: Juan Manuel Macías, orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1704 bytes --]

I have never used ConTeXt, but from what I've seen, despite its many
differences, a lot is still similar to TeX/LaTeX (e.g. math). Given this, I
think it might be easier to create a new derived exporter from ox-latex,
and override the parts that differ, instead of creating a new one
completely from scratch.

You can see an example in my own
https://github.com/zzamboni/ox-leanpub/blob/master/ox-leanpub-markua.el,
which uses ox-md as a backend for defining the new ox-markua exporter.

There is also already some documentation at
https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-export-reference.html

--Diego


On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 4:09 PM Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

>
> On 2020-12-28, at 14:38, Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, I am wondering if there are plans to create an
> > Org to ConTeXt exporter in the future, or if there is already some work
> > in progress on this front.
> >
> > I have to say that among TeX formats I tend to prefer LaTeX to ConTeXt;
> > but ConTeXt has very interesting features (grid typesetting, for
> > example) that LaTeX lacks (for now) and has a more monolithic structure,
> > that is, it does not need to be extended through packages as in LaTeX.
>
> Creating an exporter from scratch is probably easier than you think.
> A few years ago I planned a tutorial about this, but another job
> happened, then covid happened etc.  Now that I finished some big project
> taking me a lot of time, I might be tempted to revisit that.  Would
> there be demand for a DYI Org-exporter-from-scratch tutorial?
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2420 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 16:09     ` Jonathan McHugh
@ 2020-12-28 17:54       ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 19:06         ` Jonathan McHugh
  2020-12-29 21:51         ` Jonathan McHugh
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2020-12-28 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan McHugh; +Cc: orgmode

Hello, Jonathan,

Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> writes:

> I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex.
>
> As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migration to
> Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitments
> grew.

What I like about ConTeXt is its (let's say) avant-garde vocation. But
for my everyday work I prefer LaTeX: more extensible, more versatile,
even more documented. But we must accept that ConTeXt is also an
advanced typographic laboratory where many functionalities also end up
in LaTeX over time. In fact, as far as I know, the future LaTeX3 adopts
some ideas from ConTeXt.

On Lua, LuaLaTeX also has good support. And many new LaTeX packages are
already getting very good use of LuaTeX features.

> The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting
> back to Latex.

I know some advanced ConTeXt users (I am not) who are very interested in
migrating to Org Mode. In that aspect, I think a native exporter to
ConTeXt would be of great help.

Generally speaking, I think Org is the perfect interface to use TeX and
friends. One of the things I like the most about Org Mode is that it
allows working in (La)TeX at a very high level. Of course, for advanced
use, the more you know about LaTeX and TeX, the better. For example, if
I work on a large book, I usually write the entire configuration (the
preamble, my macros, my LaTeX code, etc.) to an Org file, and then I generate
a Preamble.tex file using tangle. I have a master file and several
subdocuments for the parts and sections of the book. And I make heavy
use of Org Publish. But in all that workflow, LaTeX is always in the
background. It is mainly a matter of comfort: I love TeX and its
derivatives, its power and its typographic refinement, but its language
is very verbose and the sources are difficult to debug. Org mode is much
more human readable. And even much more readable and comfortable than
Markdown.

> If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing
> expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm time....

Yes, time is the problem: I think TODO lists were invented to have a
foot of mud in the future :-)

Regards,

Juan Manuel     


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 16:23   ` Diego Zamboni
@ 2020-12-28 18:03     ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 19:23       ` Diego Zamboni
  2020-12-28 20:03       ` Marcin Borkowski
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2020-12-28 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Diego Zamboni; +Cc: orgmode

Hello, Diego,

Diego Zamboni <diego@zzamboni.org> writes:

> I have never used ConTeXt, but from what I've seen, despite its many
> differences, a lot is still similar to TeX/LaTeX (e.g. math). Given
> this, I think it might be easier to create a new derived exporter from
> ox-latex, and override the parts that differ, instead of creating a
> new one completely from scratch.

You are right, maybe it is better to start with ox-latex, since LaTeX
and ConTeXt are related.

> You can see an example in my own
> https://github.com/zzamboni/ox-leanpub/blob/master/ox-leanpub-markua.el,
> which uses ox-md as a backend for defining the new ox-markua exporter.

Thank you very much for the link. As soon as I have some time I will
study your code

Regards,

Juan Manuel 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 17:54       ` Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2020-12-28 19:06         ` Jonathan McHugh
  2020-12-29 21:51         ` Jonathan McHugh
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan McHugh @ 2020-12-28 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: orgmode

Hello Juan,

Thanks for validating my suspicions re Latex and Context.

One area I used a lot was with regards to Tikz. I will have to make many
detours before I get the chance to adapt bespoke Tikz projects to to
something more generic and action from org-mode. Hopefully by then the
choice of an outputting document management system will be less of a
consideration.

I half suspect that the Context author (Hans Hagen) focusing on Metapost
allowed the Context community to not value Tikz so much (transposing the
Tikz manual to Context would be a great win IMHO).

Checking in on Context I see that they have a new generation:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/LMTX

Im sure there will be some scripts which will need updating given
updated conventions. Im pleased that that the project still has momentum
and look forward to investigating what this means.

A Guix user, it saddens me that it is not packaged properly (time, time,
time) - especially given the LMTX shift.

Broadening the topic, I wonder whether the wider stemming of Tex derived
products should be approached with as much of the equivalent encapsulation as
possible. New to the Emacs and Lisp world, I do not know whether suggesting
Org-Mode outputting Racket's Scribble or Guile's Skribilo is productive
or relevant (or trolling!).

More practically speaking, it is worth noting that Skribilo outputs
Context (in addition to Latex):
https://www.nongnu.org/skribilo/doc/user-38.html#context-engine

It is entirely possible that that community has resolved a lot of the
challenges the Org-Mode contingent is currently deliberating over.

Best wishes,


Jonathan



Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:

> Hello, Jonathan,
>
> Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> writes:
>
>> I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex.
>>
>> As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migration to
>> Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitments
>> grew.
>
> What I like about ConTeXt is its (let's say) avant-garde vocation. But
> for my everyday work I prefer LaTeX: more extensible, more versatile,
> even more documented. But we must accept that ConTeXt is also an
> advanced typographic laboratory where many functionalities also end up
> in LaTeX over time. In fact, as far as I know, the future LaTeX3 adopts
> some ideas from ConTeXt.
>
> On Lua, LuaLaTeX also has good support. And many new LaTeX packages are
> already getting very good use of LuaTeX features.
>
>> The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting
>> back to Latex.
>
> I know some advanced ConTeXt users (I am not) who are very interested in
> migrating to Org Mode. In that aspect, I think a native exporter to
> ConTeXt would be of great help.
>
> Generally speaking, I think Org is the perfect interface to use TeX and
> friends. One of the things I like the most about Org Mode is that it
> allows working in (La)TeX at a very high level. Of course, for advanced
> use, the more you know about LaTeX and TeX, the better. For example, if
> I work on a large book, I usually write the entire configuration (the
> preamble, my macros, my LaTeX code, etc.) to an Org file, and then I generate
> a Preamble.tex file using tangle. I have a master file and several
> subdocuments for the parts and sections of the book. And I make heavy
> use of Org Publish. But in all that workflow, LaTeX is always in the
> background. It is mainly a matter of comfort: I love TeX and its
> derivatives, its power and its typographic refinement, but its language
> is very verbose and the sources are difficult to debug. Org mode is much
> more human readable. And even much more readable and comfortable than
> Markdown.
>
>> If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing
>> expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm time....
>
> Yes, time is the problem: I think TODO lists were invented to have a
> foot of mud in the future :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Manuel     


-- 
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 18:03     ` Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2020-12-28 19:23       ` Diego Zamboni
  2020-12-28 20:03       ` Marcin Borkowski
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Diego Zamboni @ 2020-12-28 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1214 bytes --]

By the way, I just realized that the ox-pandoc exporter (
https://github.com/kawabata/ox-pandoc) has a number of "context" options,
since Pandoc itself supports ConTeXt output. I have no idea how well it
works, but it could be an option for ConTeXt users for the time being.

--Diego


On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 7:03 PM Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net>
wrote:

> Hello, Diego,
>
> Diego Zamboni <diego@zzamboni.org> writes:
>
> > I have never used ConTeXt, but from what I've seen, despite its many
> > differences, a lot is still similar to TeX/LaTeX (e.g. math). Given
> > this, I think it might be easier to create a new derived exporter from
> > ox-latex, and override the parts that differ, instead of creating a
> > new one completely from scratch.
>
> You are right, maybe it is better to start with ox-latex, since LaTeX
> and ConTeXt are related.
>
> > You can see an example in my own
> > https://github.com/zzamboni/ox-leanpub/blob/master/ox-leanpub-markua.el,
> > which uses ox-md as a backend for defining the new ox-markua exporter.
>
> Thank you very much for the link. As soon as I have some time I will
> study your code
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Manuel
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1844 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 18:03     ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 19:23       ` Diego Zamboni
@ 2020-12-28 20:03       ` Marcin Borkowski
  2020-12-29 16:05         ` Juan Manuel Macías
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2020-12-28 20:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: Diego Zamboni, orgmode


On 2020-12-28, at 19:03, Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> wrote:

> Hello, Diego,
>
> Diego Zamboni <diego@zzamboni.org> writes:
>
>> I have never used ConTeXt, but from what I've seen, despite its many
>> differences, a lot is still similar to TeX/LaTeX (e.g. math). Given
>> this, I think it might be easier to create a new derived exporter from
>> ox-latex, and override the parts that differ, instead of creating a
>> new one completely from scratch.
>
> You are right, maybe it is better to start with ox-latex, since LaTeX
> and ConTeXt are related.

I beg to differ.  The relation between LaTeX and ConTeXt is that they
both come from plain TeX, but both came a long way, and there are
significant differences between the two.  Personally, I'd rather start
that exporter from scratch.  I wrote my exporter a few years ago, it's
not that difficult.

Here's the thing.  Some time ago, I have dedicated about 20 minutes per
day (sometimes less, sometimes more, but the average over the past 6
years is about 17 minutes now) to what I call "creative writing" -
mainly the book I was working on for the past 5 years with two more
people (and that book is now complete) and my blog.  I will try to use
some of that time to start that tutorial, and maybe I will then publish
it on my blog or somewhere.  (I also want to get back to the book on
Elisp I started a long time ago, but that can wait a few more weeks.)

But here's the thing: I'll need help.  I know LaTeX very well - I've
been using plain TeX for about 25 years now and LaTeX for about 20
years, including writing quite a few packages and classes - but I don't
know ConTeXt that well.  (I did use it a bit, but not very extensively.)

Where could we start working on it?  I suppose GitHub/GitLab is out of
question, so?

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 20:03       ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2020-12-29 16:05         ` Juan Manuel Macías
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2020-12-29 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcin Borkowski; +Cc: orgmode

Hello, Marcin,

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Here's the thing.  Some time ago, I have dedicated about 20 minutes per
> day (sometimes less, sometimes more, but the average over the past 6
> years is about 17 minutes now) to what I call "creative writing" -
> mainly the book I was working on for the past 5 years with two more
> people (and that book is now complete) and my blog.  I will try to use
> some of that time to start that tutorial, and maybe I will then publish
> it on my blog or somewhere.  (I also want to get back to the book on
> Elisp I started a long time ago, but that can wait a few more weeks.)

As I said, I think a tutorial on writing an Org exporter from scratch
would be very interesting and useful. If, finally, you can find time for
it, I could do a translation to publish it on my blog in Spanish
(https://gnutas.juanmanuelmacias.com/). With my translation of Homer's
Odyssey (work in progress) and other projects, I don't have a lot of free
time, but I can always find a moment.

> But here's the thing: I'll need help.  I know LaTeX very well - I've
> been using plain TeX for about 25 years now and LaTeX for about 20
> years, including writing quite a few packages and classes - but I don't
> know ConTeXt that well.  (I did use it a bit, but not very extensively.)

(In my case) I have not used much ConTeXt. Really, I prefer LaTeX. It's
a personal opinion and a matter of taste, but I find ConTeXt too
"monolithic". One of the main problems it has is (I think) its huge lack
of documentation (compared to LaTeX). I suppose, in part, because his
community is smaller. However, I also think that ConTeXt has interesting
features (grid typesetting, xml integration, etc.), and it would not be
a bad idea to have an alternative to LaTeX in Org. But I don't know if
it would be something feasible in the short term, beyond the concept...

Regards,

Juan Manuel 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 17:54       ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 19:06         ` Jonathan McHugh
@ 2020-12-29 21:51         ` Jonathan McHugh
  2021-01-04  9:41           ` Ludovic Courtès
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan McHugh @ 2020-12-29 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: ludo, orgmode

Hello Juan,

I investigated further the Context engine for Skribilo:
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=skribilo.git;a=tree;f=src/guile/skribilo/engine;h=9c6353eb7c6eae70de007c2f0a8f01092ae669a2;hb=HEAD

While I cant comment on it's Context engine functionality or efficacy, it clearly has a
decent breakdown of usecases across its 1300 lines. It appears to have
had low updates frequency, probably as a consequence of the stability of
Context's syntax (rather than the momentum of the DSL). It may be useful
as a checklist of key terms to tick off, if not a consideration for
framing anything to serve Org-Moders.

I have CC’d Ludovic Courtès, who has spearheaded Skribilo and all the
commits for it’s Context engine. Judging by his output within the Guix
community it’s possible that he may have some insights concerning this
thread:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2020-12/msg00731.html

Part of Skribilo’s homepage blurb intrigued me:
"Last but not least, Skribilo can be thought of as a complete document
programming framework for the Scheme programming language that may be
used to automate a variety of document generation tasks. Technically,
the Skribilo language/API is an embedded domain-specific language
(EDSL), implemented via so-called “deep embedding”. Skribilo uses GNU
Guile 3.0 or 2.x as the underlying Scheme implementation."
https://nongnu.org/skribilo/index.html
Still early in my Lisp journey, I do not know whether it would be
abhorrent/inelegant for the eLisp orientation of Org-Mode to defer to Guile (at the
backend) for outputting in different formats.

Kind regards,


Jonathan

Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> writes:

> Hello, Jonathan,
>
> Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> writes:
>
>> I have wondered about the interoperability between Context and Latex.
>>
>> As somebody who (previously) invested a lot of time into Latex, my migration to
>> Context (due to its emphasis on Lua) grew problematic once other commitments
>> grew.
>
> What I like about ConTeXt is its (let's say) avant-garde vocation. But
> for my everyday work I prefer LaTeX: more extensible, more versatile,
> even more documented. But we must accept that ConTeXt is also an
> advanced typographic laboratory where many functionalities also end up
> in LaTeX over time. In fact, as far as I know, the future LaTeX3 adopts
> some ideas from ConTeXt.
>
> On Lua, LuaLaTeX also has good support. And many new LaTeX packages are
> already getting very good use of LuaTeX features.
>
>> The lack of Context support in Org-Mode has made me consider reverting
>> back to Latex.
>
> I know some advanced ConTeXt users (I am not) who are very interested in
> migrating to Org Mode. In that aspect, I think a native exporter to
> ConTeXt would be of great help.
>
> Generally speaking, I think Org is the perfect interface to use TeX and
> friends. One of the things I like the most about Org Mode is that it
> allows working in (La)TeX at a very high level. Of course, for advanced
> use, the more you know about LaTeX and TeX, the better. For example, if
> I work on a large book, I usually write the entire configuration (the
> preamble, my macros, my LaTeX code, etc.) to an Org file, and then I generate
> a Preamble.tex file using tangle. I have a master file and several
> subdocuments for the parts and sections of the book. And I make heavy
> use of Org Publish. But in all that workflow, LaTeX is always in the
> background. It is mainly a matter of comfort: I love TeX and its
> derivatives, its power and its typographic refinement, but its language
> is very verbose and the sources are difficult to debug. Org mode is much
> more human readable. And even much more readable and comfortable than
> Markdown.
>
>> If I had a lot of time it would be wonderful to develop parsing
>> expression grammars to capture it all, irrespective of direction ... mmm time....
>
> Yes, time is the problem: I think TODO lists were invented to have a
> foot of mud in the future :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Manuel     


-- 
Jonathan McHugh
indieterminacy@libre.brussels


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-29 21:51         ` Jonathan McHugh
@ 2021-01-04  9:41           ` Ludovic Courtès
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Ludovic Courtès @ 2021-01-04  9:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan McHugh; +Cc: Juan Manuel Macías, orgmode

Hi,

Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> skribis:

> I investigated further the Context engine for Skribilo:
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=skribilo.git;a=tree;f=src/guile/skribilo/engine;h=9c6353eb7c6eae70de007c2f0a8f01092ae669a2;hb=HEAD
>
> While I cant comment on it's Context engine functionality or efficacy, it clearly has a
> decent breakdown of usecases across its 1300 lines. It appears to have
> had low updates frequency, probably as a consequence of the stability of
> Context's syntax (rather than the momentum of the DSL). It may be useful
> as a checklist of key terms to tick off, if not a consideration for
> framing anything to serve Org-Moders.

FWIW, I’m not the original author of the Context engine in Skribilo (it
was inherited from Skribe).  I’m afraid it hasn’t been tested in a while
and could suffer from bitrot, but hopefully it can at least serve as
inspiration.

Thanks,
Ludo’.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 13:38 Org to ConTeXt exporter? Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
@ 2021-01-08  2:37 ` Jason Ross
  2021-01-09 17:42   ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2021-01-08  3:52 ` Jason Ross
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jason Ross @ 2021-01-08  2:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: maciaschain; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

On 2020-12-28, at 14:38, Juan Manuel Macías <maciaschain@posteo.net> wrote:

 > Hi,
 >
 > Just out of curiosity, I am wondering if there are plans to create an
 > Org to ConTeXt exporter in the future, or if there is already some work
 > in progress on this front.
 >
 > I have to say that among TeX formats I tend to prefer LaTeX to ConTeXt;
 > but ConTeXt has very interesting features (grid typesetting, for
 > example) that LaTeX lacks (for now) and has a more monolithic structure,
 > that is, it does not need to be extended through packages as in LaTeX.

I recently had the same thought and I've started working on one.
You can see it here:

https://github.com/Jason-S-Ross/ox-context/

It's no substitute for the LaTeX exporter but it implements a lot
of the basics. I'm deriving from the LaTeX exporter but I have
to override most of the transcoders so it may be better to start
from scratch.

Disclaimer: I'm learning elisp as I go, so please excuse the
rough edges.


Jason Ross


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2020-12-28 13:38 Org to ConTeXt exporter? Juan Manuel Macías
  2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
  2021-01-08  2:37 ` Jason Ross
@ 2021-01-08  3:52 ` Jason Ross
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jason Ross @ 2021-01-08  3:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Juan Manuel Macías; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

On 12/28/20 5:38 AM, Juan Manuel Macías wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I am wondering if there are plans to create an
> Org to ConTeXt exporter in the future, or if there is already some work
> in progress on this front.
> 
> I have to say that among TeX formats I tend to prefer LaTeX to ConTeXt;
> but ConTeXt has very interesting features (grid typesetting, for
> example) that LaTeX lacks (for now) and has a more monolithic structure,
> that is, it does not need to be extended through packages as in LaTeX.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Juan Manuel
> 

I recently had the same thought and I've started working on one.
You can see it here:

https://github.com/Jason-S-Ross/ox-context/

It's no substitute for the LaTeX exporter but it implements a lot
of the basics. I'm deriving from the LaTeX exporter but I have
to override most of the transcoders so it may be better to start
from scratch.

Disclaimer: I'm learning elisp as I go, so please excuse the
rough edges.


Jason Ross


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2021-01-08  2:37 ` Jason Ross
@ 2021-01-09 17:42   ` Juan Manuel Macías
  2021-01-13  1:16     ` Jason Ross
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Juan Manuel Macías @ 2021-01-09 17:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Ross; +Cc: orgmode

Hello, Jason,

Jason Ross <jasonross1024@gmail.com> writes:

> I recently had the same thought and I've started working on one.
> You can see it here:
>
> https://github.com/Jason-S-Ross/ox-context/
>
> It's no substitute for the LaTeX exporter but it implements a lot
> of the basics. I'm deriving from the LaTeX exporter but I have
> to override most of the transcoders so it may be better to start
> from scratch.
>
> Disclaimer: I'm learning elisp as I go, so please excuse the
> rough edges.

That's great news! I've been testing it a bit and it works very good. Of
course, I encourage you to keep up this excellent work.

Regards,

Juan Manuel 

>
> Jason Ross
>

-- 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter?
  2021-01-09 17:42   ` Juan Manuel Macías
@ 2021-01-13  1:16     ` Jason Ross
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Jason Ross @ 2021-01-13  1:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

I'm happy to hear you're able to use it! Any feedback or criticism
is appreciated, and I'd like to know what your output format looks
like if you're able to share.


Thanks,

Jason

On 1/9/21 9:42 AM, Juan Manuel Macías wrote:
> Hello, Jason,
> 
> Jason Ross <jasonross1024@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I recently had the same thought and I've started working on one.
>> You can see it here:
>>
>> https://github.com/Jason-S-Ross/ox-context/
>>
>> It's no substitute for the LaTeX exporter but it implements a lot
>> of the basics. I'm deriving from the LaTeX exporter but I have
>> to override most of the transcoders so it may be better to start
>> from scratch.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I'm learning elisp as I go, so please excuse the
>> rough edges.
> 
> That's great news! I've been testing it a bit and it works very good. Of
> course, I encourage you to keep up this excellent work.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Juan Manuel
> 
>>
>> Jason Ross
>>
> 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-01-13  1:19 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-12-28 13:38 Org to ConTeXt exporter? Juan Manuel Macías
2020-12-28 15:04 ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-12-28 15:38   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2020-12-28 16:09     ` Jonathan McHugh
2020-12-28 17:54       ` Juan Manuel Macías
2020-12-28 19:06         ` Jonathan McHugh
2020-12-29 21:51         ` Jonathan McHugh
2021-01-04  9:41           ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-12-28 16:23   ` Diego Zamboni
2020-12-28 18:03     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2020-12-28 19:23       ` Diego Zamboni
2020-12-28 20:03       ` Marcin Borkowski
2020-12-29 16:05         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-01-08  2:37 ` Jason Ross
2021-01-09 17:42   ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-01-13  1:16     ` Jason Ross
2021-01-08  3:52 ` Jason Ross

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