From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id MPD0CHfC4mGmeAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:47:51 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id GLiNBnfC4mHNTQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:47:51 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7A6F2C6C2 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:47:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8iTF-0001cJ-3F for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:47:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53314) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8iM5-0001b8-ST for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:40:27 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:53869) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8iM3-0007Km-9D for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:40:25 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 119F3240026 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:40:13 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.eu; s=2017; t=1642250414; bh=Hn+k7wc4nDTivSDbM2Boc2rH7uh+rCg+QfxGWzYsPRg=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:From; b=bXt6pAmHyG6MgTVUDuafuMRpfWfWC9N+Dlku5QI2ZZAR3e9xq4PnoUuxJYZSCsaQQ QN5pF/pTMDcfZ8YLgLww0+nz+2wVWqG/QlYLmYfU8k4SKAW56lO0H02OpQ3QFwyevU Vhs9qTyZiybzl1d2bgBt4xZkT19t+auRcQ74BNuHSl1qi6ZQEHJ9iRswEqLFN682eY 007xYmPlz3gpVVlUU5wRctvRguNS+/gfUui0qDt033WRdh5dtFYqS51ChL2Vg7X7KN 8kd1W5oDy0X9cjUkJNf/BUZaIJeNlkGta/Nw+bbElSELa3YD5eIyIcqq0bXFdJPcb7 WdAqUZkUfX7Nw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Jbd6h6bJsz9rxh; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:40:12 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------QpwzucaoEyysw0Btga0drPgs" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 12:40:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Org Syntax Specification Content-Language: fr To: Timothy , org-mode-email References: <871r1g936z.fsf@gmail.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?S=c3=a9bastien_Miquel?= In-Reply-To: <871r1g936z.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=sebastien.miquel@posteo.eu; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: sebastien.miquel@posteo.eu Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1642250870; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=BYLYzACb80XEeu6kqcHvxAZyiTGuKrf2fCnALIjqA7Y=; b=FLRtFunkuNgMQcJmqHVqI5TD0FrZnrFIpsBoyrTHU+Ho152JLCao8hzGUW5AuV2o64KM4A b5yMx2XhIFiWseabrc4Etytz60FxPHXC63/j0FP4FgpPt2+B6J5Fbmi0CMGsJIB16oPAb0 lW0023mjp6a3NzzVZczUEkK/uitYPT5lpR3+OyfF9nWmisSgGh6n3QALVg0Xom2+Kc49kc TYXBWXnT/gNZWliavfy8hx6dC60Xjr+O4nHVnwj3nZkW1MXD39tgp41tG+UljtfHmM3/Eg cLEaxWJDFhNaULoaz1Z9FBn+/ni4lSL5E8/X5HMABubbIbciIs/i79VeneSo3Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1642250870; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Al1tAgP2BFCqzBskg7jcHxCjbrjXNlTMVzA8mq8tzqDWvDMB3si4aLn0CYrkvMLIYSJi7e kTLWFwHfA0AgD466d/Hs9xfLE+kGsu77TmOKkUwNyBSP7fiRpH+XePNHDKa2ddi3QlwTYO JrJG07TF1QIumguflO/XgNlyCpLhXsBwtxRpKETkMm+m2iMCZKf/Ewcz12wNfsEn7NtzNR AKYnVg76ZikzpwUIvv/PPnQRcbAe+HqFXh1Xwr/7sxDIrqS9LYfu5+jZsXqyFf+Xp08rnv 96pYKhFhAlYGI7bHtPgBnqd+YxWJv/NM1jmg+gjuzXAVxAqaSmQ4X0ZIpKTVRA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.eu header.s=2017 header.b=bXt6pAmH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.eu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.eu header.s=2017 header.b=bXt6pAmH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.eu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B7A6F2C6C2 X-Spam-Score: -6.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Rwrf1p4DOjE3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------QpwzucaoEyysw0Btga0drPgs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, The new document seems much clearer. It makes a nice complement to the manual and we should definitely lose the (draft). Thank you Timothy for the work. > Lastly, having spent a while looking at the syntax, I’m wondering if > we should take this opportunity to mark some of the syntactic elements > we’ve become less happy with as *(depreciated)*. I’m specifically > thinking of the TeX-style LaTeX fragments which have been a bit of a > pain. To quote Nicolas in org-syntax.org: > > It would introduce incompatibilities with previous Org versions, > but support for |$...$| (and for symmetry, |$$...$$|) constructs > ought to be removed. > > They are slow to parse, fragile, redundant and imply false > positives. — ngz > This quote has been mentioned a few times lately, and no one has yet spoken in favor of the $…$ syntax, so I'll have a quick go. It is easier to use, easier to read and more commonly used (and known) in tex documents (a quick web search for sample tex documents confirms the latter). Removing this syntax would make org slightly harder to pick up, with respect to writing scientific documents. As for the listed shortcomings, I don't think we know whether its slowness is significant and false positives can be avoided by using the \dollar entity (possibly ?). In my own use, the only usability issue I can think of is false negatives while writing : inserting a space or other such characters at the end of a snippet removes the fontification (I solve this by modifying the fontification regexps). Regards, -- Sébastien Miquel --------------QpwzucaoEyysw0Btga0drPgs Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,

The new document seems much clearer. It makes a nice complement to the
manual and we should definitely lose the (draft). Thank you Timothy
for the work.

Lastly, having spent a while looking at the syntax, I’m wondering if we should take this opportunity to mark some of the syntactic elements we’ve become less happy with as (depreciated). I’m specifically thinking of the TeX-style LaTeX fragments which have been a bit of a pain. To quote Nicolas in org-syntax.org:

It would introduce incompatibilities with previous Org versions, but support for $...$ (and for symmetry, $$...$$) constructs ought to be removed.

They are slow to parse, fragile, redundant and imply false positives. — ngz


This quote has been mentioned a few times lately, and no one has yet
spoken in favor of the $…$ syntax, so I'll have a quick go.

It is easier to use, easier to read and more commonly used (and known)
in tex documents (a quick web search for sample tex documents confirms
the latter). Removing this syntax would make org slightly harder to
pick up, with respect to writing scientific documents.

As for the listed shortcomings, I don't think we know whether its
slowness is significant and false positives can be avoided by using
the \dollar entity (possibly ?). In my own use, the only usability
issue I can think of is false negatives while writing : inserting a
space or other such characters at the end of a snippet removes the
fontification (I solve this by modifying the fontification regexps).

Regards,
-- 
Sébastien Miquel
--------------QpwzucaoEyysw0Btga0drPgs--