From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id UEjVFKcVM2MdcgEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:24:23 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id qJH9E6cVM2MrdgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:24:23 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB9D94D9D for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:24:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36276 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odCRZ-0006pa-Dt for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:24:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51410) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odB1t-0002V9-3P for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:53:45 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:58887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odB1q-0001tm-M7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:53:44 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.4.116]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000BA491.0000000063330064.00007F00; Tue, 27 Sep 2022 06:53:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 16:52:03 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Samuel Wales Cc: rswgnu@gmail.com, emacs-org list Subject: Re: Org and Hyperbole Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Samuel Wales , rswgnu@gmail.com, emacs-org list References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/+ () (2022-06-11) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1664292263; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=aRkPgH8MPRgDGp8LzC4BqunrdrziaTUpjujj40sXdyA=; b=EiUtCi1/b6ueitdObp1TRmL3QW84dxQu5y34RjgOItTVWyKWqP9EbfSLktJk0XBhVBQKiX flhpa3+NawoJJ+fMqv1HSiGHf/WMkfPbh/JkjBXwKXGUmPbCYKJr0bQ6Xpjqg8BxxBPf22 HLOEzJ5kcM95+uyFqtIjr7F9QNVItRl+yjghrNoL9dn5a1tfN7gzsf6smDoSg+zEEmy2nr zCjKLY9WjRDYfOf77/ZY7RNrc66S5GY3oiCoQIaveMh3XqI7kBisMHIovltPNACrFbec4D rMy6flbtoN08DPnO+7Q9/hNCvGoOOCWmvWRxtuvKKYh5XYUYJas3tN1Uur7H0A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1664292263; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HqU/Wm+SGfDPYV35AtJQUuHeiTR/zMGvjby4+DX+ItQrOIK/7TWJ4zMW2Q+GupKhAT2zms lL5Z6GxPveaifuzqEo6UDYgJF9Vrf0xuJo5/hdXzI1KEBuLF0em+rjZYwYrolmLTRJa5wW C70bljxWdCC27+Qy0+DjxftnzkseaAZyWz7BiyF8HnuJAzy5NXnEIPGvOcGh6jwuU8uFUE xNESh+MelHHY4Yx1aJMtWnyTY7nXy1eXzAyltkzsorUOfikLEP9aF/Ux2lAkq+9SE4VCEh jxIn2mLXbyO85IPO+II9jpRsQlsZieCNCePxKXV2uHKrMeH56Vw4gjAm02/Q1A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.63 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EB9D94D9D X-Spam-Score: -2.63 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: w4vjfnWkny49 * Samuel Wales [2022-06-24 07:33]: > hi robert, welcome to the org list and thanks for your offer. > > for starters, does hyperbole have any concept of links that are: > > - unbreakable [like org-id] > > - bidirectional [link a goes to link b; link b goes to link a], or, > reversible via command to say "what links here?" [by any mechanism. > if desired, please see "id markers" concept on this list for > unbreakable bidirectional links and more stuff] I was experimenting with idea of backlinks since 1 year, 3 months and 14 days. For me personally, it is not easy, but I managed to record backlinks. Let us say I am writing email, insert link there, the link that I inserted it in the email will know that I inserted it in the email, and its file name, but it will not know the ID of the person to which email belonged. Maybe I could handle the best mail software for Emacs (mutt) to send some information about currently replied email address to connect to it. Otherwise if I use some kind of interpolated links like: ⟦ (link 123 "Name") ⟧ then each interpolation could eventually make the link remember where it was inserted. My note buffers have different local variables: rcd-current-table refers to table in database, such as "hyobjects" (elementary objects in terms of Doug Engelbart), and there is rcd-current-table-id such as 1, which refers to the row #1 in table hyobjects. Inserting link into the buffer like that makes the link notify that it was inserted there. But how it is going to remember when the link disappears? The only way to go for backlinks to be remembered at all times is to treat them as elementary objects, see: https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/116/#7j Elementary Objects: https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/110/460/#2a1a Imagine elementary objects under a list named "Document": 1 Introduction paragraph 2 link #1 3 link #2 4 Image 5 Body of document Now imagine document being joined together, something like: Introduction paragraph (link #1) Body of document In that way when all elementary parts would be considered, one could get full control over backlinks. It seems tedious at first. It need not be. Let us say I am in the set of elementary objects named "Body" and I am inserting links there. The set itself is the list of elementary object. A function to insert hyperlink can in same time record which other elementary object is inserted in which object and keep it in the set list. This way record remains for later back linking. The link can know where it was linked from. When handling database objects hyperlinking and backlinking is a must and mostly built-in. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/